Off The Reservation

The problem, of course, is what constitutes Christian belief?
Some think a vow of poverty is needed.
Some think drinking alcohol and dancing is a sure trip to hell.
Other's think reading certain material should be banned.
Some think contraception is contra-Christian behavior.
The examples are never ending.

If you read the bible literally you have to ignore large sections in order to live in our society [unless stoning to death is something you want to take part in!].

Now here is the kicker; Christian beliefs are no different in kind to any other religious belief.
People have been killed over all religious beliefs [including Buddhism], all beliefs leave behind large sections of previous tenets as society changes [progresses?], and religious leaders are regularly shown to have "feet of clay."

Good discussion, but I reject the Christian exceptionalism that permeates it.

When looking at any religion, you have to look at its founder and doctrinal documents. Followers of religions are flawed and in some ways support a need for a "savior". I think we can all agree that we (humans) being naturally self-centered like to pick and choose things in which we want to believe, follow, etc. So it is no surprise that you have multiple religions, denominations, crazy sects within religions etc. But a multiple of major religions that survived thousands of years tells me that "something/Someone" is reaching out to us.

If you want to compare religions you MUST look at the founder of that religion and the doctrinal documents that started the religion. When you look at the example the founder lived by and the doctrinal texts, you will get a better understanding of the intent of the religion. I recommend reading it for yourself versus getting an "experts" take on something. An expert’s opinion/take should supplement your own reading/research/understanding.

It is very important to note that there can be differences that have no "eternal" significance (being baptized by being sprinkled by water versus dunked in water) but issues arise when there are eternal differences. In Christianity, accepting that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day is the ONLY criteria to get to Heaven. This is clearly seen in Jesus’ teachings and the doctrinal texts. The crazy stories in the Bible are "physical representations of spiritual principles" that God has used to teach us about the consequences for sin. This can be explained in a different post if anyone is interested.

Now on the issue of belief, a person can say, "I don't believe fire burns." But as soon as they stick their hand in the fire, the truth is revealed despite his/her belief. So I believe a truth exists (one religion is correct or there is nothing after life - I believe there is eternal life after death). So on the issue of religion, one of these religions has to be correct if there is indeed "something after life". If you don't believe anything exists, that is your prerogative and you will either go into nowhere after death or meet with whatever religion is true. Either way, the truth will be made known at death if you don't discover it during life. Keep in mind that all of the religions cannot be true because they are in conflict with one another. One says do this to reach enlightenment, another says this to get to Allah, and Christianity says there is no way to Heaven except through your belief in Jesus. So one religion has to be correct or there is nothing after death. This is the gamble we are all faced with and I believe everyone will be faced with this decision sometime in their life if not multiple times.

This brings up why I believe Christianity is the "truth". This is because Christianity is the only religion that says you don't have to physically do anything to be "saved", it has already been done (Jesus death and resurrection). All you have to do is "believe in your heart" that He died in your place and that He rose from death. That belief alone gets you to Heaven. Going to church, praying, reading your Bible cannot get you to Heaven. Instead, you do these things because you are saved already and now want to get to know God better. It doesn’t exempt you from poverty, turmoil and even death. What it does do is reconcile you with a God that loves you but could not be in a relationship with you because of our sin. It was Jesus’ sacrifice that allowed for reconciliation to take place and for us to have eternal life.

The Christian word came about as a slur not a word of entitlement. After CHrist died (so to speak) all that followed him were persecuted and called CHristians in a mocking undertone not in the sense it is used now. It was embraced as a word to be prideful of b/c to be called a Christian meant to be a follower of Christ and CHrist said that to be persecuted on earth because of my name meant we were following his law and righteousness.

Interesting to see everyone has their own definition of their respective faiths. Would like to see someone of a creed other than Christianity jump in here.

I believe there will always be individuals who misuse anything and because the influence of religion, the misuse/abuse is always there and in some ways, greater. This is why a personal relationship is important in Christianity. I can sit and listen to a preacher but it would be foolish to take everything he/she says as gospel (no pun intended). For the Christian, we must weigh things against the Bible and then determine for ourselves if this is in alignment with the Bible.

The great thing about the Bible is that there are subtle differences in minor descriptions but not major differences in “eternal” aspects of various versions, translations, etc. If they all said the exact thing, it would lead one to think there was a conspiracy. The fact that the important items are described almost verbatim and the less important items differ somewhat shows that this event has been documented properly. Here is an example; we probably all saw the bowl game against Notre Dame. We will describe how the events happened differently from one another (how the o-line played, did ND give up, etc) but the “concrete” items will not change (who we played against, the final score, where it was played, etc).

The funny thing is that the Bible (Old and New Testament) point to one person (Jesus). The stories were written in over 60 books over years and years but as I read them and take in the “whole story”, it says to me that there is a God who has been reaching out to us and despite ourselves; He provided a way out and still wants to be in relationship with us.

I am a recovering Catholic and two key things:

Not tolerant

It's allabout the $

So I am in the middle of the Nole game sunday..the doorbell rings.

Now keep in mind, I hate answering the door (usually send the 4 yr old) and the ph (usually a telemarketer, again the 4yr old). So seeing how I was home alone, I get up an answer it, and its this lady with the jehovahs witnesses.

She starts her pitch, and i cut her off (politely) halfway through it.

"Can i ask you a serious question?"

"Why yes, please do" (they are so polite)

"Does this really work on anyone?"

"What do you mean?"

"Selling your religion door to door, does it work?"

"I am not sell.."

"Yes you are selling, and you are not doing well, know why?"

"Why?"

"Because it is 1:30 on a sunday, and most people are engaged in leisure activity and really do not want to be bothered, and to be honest the only reason we are chatting at all, is because I have a dvr and can pause my game, since your interests to not conflict with my interests i wish you the best of luck." (i watched the Godfather saturday night, so i borrowed)

It is this "tolerance" that will ultimately be our undoing. When people lose their morals they lose their freedom b/c you must have gov't. to come in and do what people did on their own at one time. It is my firm belief that this is the main reason Christians are so roundly attacked in modern Amerika these days.

Another thing, Pben mentioned his muslim "friend". How can you believe anything a person who worships a book that preaches reward for killing/lying to/stealing from non-believers (which is one time Christians/atheiest/agnostics/Catholics are all on the same page) says? This will never happen until it's too late, but if we were smart (not really all that smart b/c the proof is worldwide right before our eyes) we'd outlaw islam and rid ourselves of them ASAP. Nothing good ever comes w/ allowing the immigration of a cancer into one's body.

Some people may and have chosen to keep their beliefs/religion personal. For the Christian, it clearly states that we should spread the Gospel to the whole world. For the Christian, living a life without Jesus is similar to watching someone driving 100 mph towards a cliff and the driver being totally unaware. The Christian sees the impending danger and wants to let the person know that they are heading for danger and they need to change course before it is too late. So I can see how we sometimes get a little overzealous sometimes.

The issue sometimes is how the Gospel message is shared. Most people are turned away from religion because of how the message is delivered. But you have to remember that 1+1 =2 no matter who says it or how they say it. Someone could even yell at you in a demeaning way saying, “1 + 1 = 2.” But how they say it doesn’t take away from the fact that 1+1 will always equal 2.

The Christian MUST present the message in a loving way but not listening to them because of the presentation seems foolish as well (Ignoring someone who is yelling at you because you are about to drive off a cliff.)

In this case, both sides should leave emotion out of the equation (no pun intended) to ensure that a clear decision can be made. Not forced…but willingly made