Unconquered

Actually neither matter without a little luck along the way. Seems with every team that has won one recently, something unpredictable happened to help them out.

In a vacuum, both are important. When it comes to FSU, we have the talent to win a national championship (The last three recruiting classes are of that caliber). So how the coaches game plan and coach the players during the game will be the difference for us.

You understand the premise of the question is that you do have both, but for the purposes of the discussion one is going to be better than the other, correct?

I do agree with the previous poster that a great amount of luck is important, as well.

Seems to me that it's obvious that the answer is coaches. You cannot get talented players without having the coaches to go out and recruit/develop them.

You do need both but it always coaches first.

It goes in this order: players, then luck, then coaches.

We had very close to the same coaches from 1990 to 2000. Why did we only win in 93 and 99. Players and luck.

Now a change in coaches, and a drop off in luck, came in 2001 and we were average.

This excellent coaching staff we have,lost to Wake, Clemson and Virginia, with most of that being bad luck with injuries along the offensive line and at QB.

Don't do that. You know Butch Davis brought those players there and he left the year before. Had he stayed he would've won the title as well. Everyone knew Coker did nothing.

Like the situation at Auburn, you'll find a team here or there that wins the way Chizik did with Cam.

However, Saban is a great example of it being the coaches. LSU and Alabama were struggling before he got there. As soon as he comes in, here comes the elite talent.

I'll take it a step further. The ACC and SEC have basically the same amount of guys drafted each year for the nfl. So why is it that the sec wins all the titles? Because they have better coaching across the board.

If there has to be an alpha component then you would have to have an excellent coaching staff with a good team. Great coaches know how to utilize each players strengths and weaknesses in every matchup and implement solid backup plans if the first plan failed.

You are making my argument for me.

Butch Davis brings in elite players, Larry Coker takes over. Coker is a sucky coach, but wins a NC due to the players he has.

Conclusion: players.

And Saban is NOT an example for coaching. Saban wins because he is great at bringing the best PLAYERS in and DQing guys who won't help.

Yah. He's a good coach too, but he rides Trent Richardson's and Mark Ingram's to titles.

Again, the ACC vs the SEC is not an example for coaching. How many of those ACC drafts are first rounders at impact positions?

Cam Newton, Mark Ingram, Julio Jones, AJ Green...ext ext...

The ACC doesn't have ANY draft picks like those.

A 5th round LB does not equate to a first round QB (Ponder is the only 1st round QB I can even think of from the ACC meanwhile the SEC is producing Peyton Mannings and Cam Newtons and Tim Tebows and Jamarcus Russells who were all amazing in college)

No, you made my argument for me.

Look at what you said happens first. "Butch Davis brings in elite players, Larry Coker takes over. Coker is a sucky coach, but wins a NC due to the players he has." A great coach has to bring in the elite talent first. Then from there regardless of who is coaching when they win the title, it starts with the coach bringing in the talent. Had Coker been the coach instead of Davis the entire time do you think they would've had that same talent? Well we can see the answer to that just by looking at what happened after Coker won the title with "Davis' players". He didn't last very long because he couldn't keep bringing in elite talent like Davis could.

Chizik got lucky that the one of the best college players of all time happened to pick Auburn. Again I'm not saying you can win with average talent, but you have to have the a hell of a recruiter/coach (or scandalous boosters) to get them to the school.

Also, I'd like to see the list of average coaches that won a National Championship. I bet a lot of them were either great recruiters or had a "Coker" like situation.

I would have to saying coaching also. Look at Bowden he was winning with average playerswhen he first came here. Even when he brought in the talent it took a few years every time to see the national championship b/c he had to develop them first. But this is definitely a chicken and the egg question. B/c you can twist that and say he needed the talent too. Which also make them important.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Coker. For the last time, the only reason he won was because he had Butch Davis' players. Davis could recruit and coach up elite talent. Again, when Coker had the players he recruited himself the next few years, Miami did nothing. What don't you get about that?

Again, Chizik happened to bring in one of the best college football players of all time to Auburn, and was the ultimate weapon for Guz Malzahn's offense. I agree that Chizik is mediocre, but even with this being said, there aren't a lot of mediocre coaches that win championships.

How is Fulmer a mediocre coach?. He went 152-52, which is a .745 winning percentage, at Tennessee. Explain that one to me.

Not sure how you think Saban can't be included in this. He is the perfect example for why coaching is more important. If he went to UCLA, he would have them contending for titles within 2 to 4 years, because he will get elite players no matter where he is. And if that's the case, how could the players be more important? Also, Saban didn't ride anybody to a championship. Alabama is a contender every year because of their defense that's run by Saban.

I don't want to take up to much of your time, but if you can give me 3 more mediocre coaches that won championships, maybe I'll see things the other way. Ideally, none of the coaches you come up with should have a .745 career winning percentage.

I actually agree with your overall argument but the ACC has had some significant success drafting impact players in 1st Round

Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, BJ Raji, Calvin Johnson, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Kenny Phillips, Greg Olsen, Heath Miller, Shawn Merriman, to name a few.