Online Now 444

Unconquered

The place to talk about the Florida State Seminoles

On this Board 304
Record: 3837 (2/3/2013)

Online now 516
Record: 5859 (2/14/2012)

Boards ▾

Unconquered

The place to talk about the Florida State Seminoles

Off The Reservation

The place to discuss general topics outside of Florida State

Reply

"The playbook is huge"

  • Starting off, this is not a "the sky is falling post." I would just like to read other's opinions. I have noticed a lot of our offensive players (specifically Wilder in the article) saying this and wondering if anyone thinks we would be vastly improved if it was simplified. EJ is simply not good at reading defenses, our rbs, te's, oline, wrs, continue to "struggle with assignments." Could the answer be as easy as limiting the reads and just letting our players "out-athlete" other teams?

    sickofwarchant

  • No. The answer is for the players on this team to crack down, learn the playbook, and execute.

    No excuses.

    Bejnay

  • Bejnay said...

    No. The answer is for the players on this team to crack down, learn the playbook, and execute.

    No excuses.

    I believe your answer to be best, but after 6 (maybe 7?) years of Jimbo's offense, the players have not been able to do so. This is not the NFL where playing is the player's only job. They are student athletes who have to study, and are young and still like to go out and party. Their entire focus can not be on learning the playbook. I have never been a coach though and do not know the ins and outs as some in here do-the reason i posed the question.

    sickofwarchant

  • sickofwarchant said...

    I believe your answer to be best, but after 6 (maybe 7?) years of Jimbo's offense

    He's been here a little over 5 years.

    tricknole

  • Jamarcus Russel succeeded in this offense and won a national championship. Our O-line has been more of the problem as of recent.

    NOLE_MERCY

  • ....
    You know what they say,....its not the size of the playbook.....

    thebear612

  • Does Jimbo overcoach the QBs? I think he does BY A HAIR. It just seems like for our QBs his mantra of "Just go out and play" isn't backed by his coaching style. That said, EJ needs to freakin learn it and make the reads.

    As for the young guys, if you question them then you've never seen a major college playbook. I'll tell you the truth and if you don't like it or feel im arrogant then Im sorry, just trying to make a point.

    I had a 32 on the ACT and when I got to look through Lane Kiffin's offensive playbook, which is very likely very similar to Jimbo's, I said to myself, "it would take me 12 months of studying this being my full time job to get it all in a game. It is A LOT of stuff.

    fsufsu

  • NOLE_MERCY said...

    Jamarcus Russel won a national championship.

    no he didn't

    NTally Kingpin28520

  • NOLE_MERCY said...

    Jamarcus Russel succeeded in this offense and won a national championship. Our O-line has been more of the problem as of recent.

    Exactly my thoughts haha.

    StPete_Nole72037

  • it's not just EJ who fails to grasp the entire "bounce around and do some things" offensive philosophy

    NTally Kingpin28520

  • N.Tally Kingpin said...

    no he didn't

    You are correct. I apologize, but he was highly successful in his last two years and skipped his senior season. I would venture to say that EJ, as well as probably every player on offense, have a higher intelligence level than Russell.

    NOLE_MERCY

  • fsufsu said...

    Does Jimbo overcoach the QBs? I think he does BY A HAIR. It just seems like for our QBs his mantra of "Just go out and play" isn't backed by his coaching style. That said, EJ needs to freakin learn it and make the reads.

    As for the young guys, if you question them then you've never seen a major college playbook. I'll tell you the truth and if you don't like it or feel im arrogant then Im sorry, just trying to make a point.

    I had a 32 on the ACT and when I got to look through Lane Kiffin's offensive playbook, which is very likely very similar to Jimbo's, I said to myself, "it would take me 12 months of studying this being my full time job to get it all in a game. It is A LOT of stuff.

    Honestly, thanks. I have never seen a D1 college playbook and don't know if Jimbo's playbook is a lot larger than other programs. I am speaking strictly as a fan and from what I read from here and other sites. It just seems that it is common that players are not grasping the playbook. Don't you have to style your gameplan to the athletes you have? If they can't grasp it, although not optimum, doesn't it follow to simplify the gameplan/play calls. I may be completely off base, but its a thought for debate.

    sickofwarchant

  • A playbook for an offense like what Morris runs at Clemson likely has 200 pages I bet and can be learned in an offseason. Kiffin's had like 750 pages and honestly I was blown away that these kids with 16-19 ACTs were ever able to learn it. And that's not a knock. It's like the first time you ever get that BIG BOY college Chemistry book except you know the test will be dynamic and frequently shifting and you have to take it in front of 85K crazy people.

    fsufsu

  • fsufsu said...

    Does Jimbo overcoach the QBs? I think he does BY A HAIR. It just seems like for our QBs his mantra of "Just go out and play" isn't backed by his coaching style. That said, EJ needs to freakin learn it and make the reads.

    As for the young guys, if you question them then you've never seen a major college playbook. I'll tell you the truth and if you don't like it or feel im arrogant then Im sorry, just trying to make a point.

    I had a 32 on the ACT and when I got to look through Lane Kiffin's offensive playbook, which is very likely very similar to Jimbo's, I said to myself, "it would take me 12 months of studying this being my full time job to get it all in a game. It is A LOT of stuff.

    All good points. The thought that runs through my head is what one of my neighbors who played for Gruden told me...."His playbook was very complicated....for no reason".

    He has played in the show for 12 years and a few different coaches....he said he really likes Gruden but said complex offenses are one thing but there is such a thing as overkill.

    Is this a problem with JFs playbook? Remember that as an OC going back to his days at LSU and adding in FSU his offenses have averaged to be 42nd in points scored in the country.

    thebear612

  • thebear612 said...

    All good points. The thought that runs through my head is what one of my neighbors who played for Gruden told me...."His playbook was very complicated....for no reason".

    He has played in the show for 12 years and a few different coaches....he said he really likes Gruden but said complex offenses are one thing but there is such a thing as overkill.

    Is this a problem with JFs playbook? Remember that as an OC going back to his days at LSU and adding in FSU his offenses have averaged to be 42nd in points scored in the country.

    Exactly. And the ability to explain your offense occurs on a continuum as well. We can all agree Jimbo is maybe 75% as good an offensive coach as Bobby Petrino. That said, if they sat in a room I bet Bobby would consider Jimbo his equal in terms of acumen and ideas. Petrino just makes his playbook come alive for the players and it becomes this organic, dynamic expression. Jimbo's O just comes across as Calculus 3. JMO

    fsufsu

  • fsufsu said...

    Exactly. And the ability to explain your offense occurs on a continuum as well. We can all agree Jimbo is maybe 75% as good an offensive coach as Bobby Petrino. That said, if they sat in a room I bet Bobby would consider Jimbo his equal in terms of acumen and ideas. Petrino just makes his playbook come alive for the players and it becomes this organic, dynamic expression. Jimbo's O just comes across as Calculus 3. JMO

    So what is the answer to make it not "calculus 3"? Simplifying? Having a better explanation? Having an OC who can focus solely on that?

    sickofwarchant

  • sickofwarchant said...

    So what is the answer to make it not "calculus 3"? Simplifying? Having a better explanation? Having an OC who can focus solely on that?

    I believe the answer is Jimbo relinquishing OC duties because he's twice as good as a CEO. Pride included into the mix and I'd say he's gotta recruit QBs, somehow, who have extremely high football IQs. This is difficult because recruiting rules keep you from spending the time necessary to establish this.

    Winston is known as an absolute sponge for football. He may well be a great one. He and Coker are a brighter future than our present IYAM. EJ is a very affable, smart young man but Jimbo asks him to think too hard during plays and it confounds him. He'd have dominated some other places. He will still be "good" this year though. But he just can't read two safeties on the same play and constantly leads WRs directly into defenders. It's uncanny.

    Either that or we need a QB who can listen to Jimbo, know who's running what routes and then he throws Jimbo's desires to analyze everything to the nth degree and merely makes plays. Fans rarely know how much some star players have actually overcome their playcallers to be superstars.

    This post was edited by fsufsu on 4/15/2012 at 5:34 PM

    fsufsu

  • The SEC was not the big hype machine it was in Russell's final year at LSU and when he faced off against a big time D (FU with Reggie Nelson) the whole thing fell apart. They had a ton more talent than FU on offense that year and were good enough on D with Bo Pelini to win it all.

    I don't hate Jimbo's offense but let's put some things in perspective here. I agree that the offense should be simplified a bit because Jimbo feels that everything has to work perfectly for plays and drives to happen in his offense. You combine a need for perfection with a daunting volume of memorization and meticulous details and normal human error makes it a recipe for at best disappointment and at worst disaster.

    signature image

    WARNING: Text above may cause dizziness, nausea, cognitive decline, and/or a burning sensation. Read at your own risk.

    healthguyfsu

  • Russell looked terrible in Knoxville that year as well. I was in the South Endzone and saw him just try to "99 throw power" his way to a victory. It was ugly.

    fsufsu

  • So to add to the discussion another thought..... We have a complex playbook..... do we use all of it? 75%....50%......

    thebear612

  • fsufsu said...

    Russell looked terrible in Knoxville that year as well. I was in the South Endzone and saw him just try to "99 throw power" his way to a victory. It was ugly.

    No disrespect but he "99 throw powered" his way to 3000+ yards and 25+ tds that year with only 8 picks. Not saying he didn't have talent around him, but you don't just put those stats up in the sec because you have a strong arm.

    I don't think it is a matter of the Playbook being too involved. I think some players just don't do what it takes to grasp it. Trickett certainly seemed to understand it last year. I am not saying Trickett is better, nor am I saying the Playbook was completely open to him. What I am saying is that the Playbook is not the issue. EJ has a big confidence problem and it shows in his play at times. Not to mention our O-line wasn't exactly all world last year.

    This post was edited by NOLE_MERCY on 4/16/2012 at 1:55 AM

    NOLE_MERCY

  • All these people saying trickett has a better understanding of the playbook might be right I don't think he has the same ability though. Trickett has been looking at that playbook since he was prob a sophomore in hs. But ej will be fine he should have the playbook by now and hopefully he does but it all starts on the offensive line

    StevenM1

  • A playbook can be very thick but if it is based on a logical system which ours is it is not that hard to learn.

    FearTheSpear

  • People are seeming to focus on EJ, but its not just EJ. One of our 5 young olinemen can not have the assignment down and the whole play blows up. On a run to the outside, a wr can not block his assignment and the whole play blows up. Every piece needs to be running cohesively to run a good play. So, with young players across the board on offense, the plays should be limited. If we have 750 plays, why not make it 300 plays? Run 10 plays max out of every formation. Simplify it down, these guys are all great athletes, but not all of them (some are) are great scholars.

    sickofwarchant

  • StevenM1 said...

    All these people saying trickett has a better understanding of the playbook might be right I don't think he has the same ability though. Trickett has been looking at that playbook since he was prob a sophomore in hs. But ej will be fine he should have the playbook by now and hopefully he does but it all starts on the offensive line

    Trickett can understand the playbook all he wants to. Heck EJ probably understands it better than we are giving him credit for. The problem is every skill player has to understand the playbook to its fullest for our offense to sustain drives. The expectations are too high as the probability of every player getting it right on crucial plays of a long, sustained drive drops with every player responsible and every play that becomes crucial.

    It's not hard to understand why our offense that is supposed to be methodical usually stalls and sputters and looks methodical for about 2-3 drives per game, gets lucky for another drive or two where we have a big play, and we usually win by out-talenting the other team and having a great D.

    signature image

    WARNING: Text above may cause dizziness, nausea, cognitive decline, and/or a burning sensation. Read at your own risk.

    healthguyfsu