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The ACC going forward. Is/will it be viable?

  • Another site has a good article talking about how the ACC C-O-U-L-D be saved!

    I am hoping some of the posters here will throw their 2 cents in.

    "Can the ACC be Saved?"
    Absolutely!

    "Will it be saved?"
    I don't know!

    Having FSU in it is the reason we get a decent TV contract with ESPN.

    The equal, but not fair, revenue sharing will eventually push FSU out.
    FSU is patient, but will not continue to stand by while our real competitors
    (read uf and the SEC) build up a $10 million dollar annual advantage.

    @#$% made some real sound suggestions.
    1. Do away with equal revenue sharing. (This is too simplistic, but it makes the point.
    If they reduced all the other teams' revenue by $250 K and gave it to FSU that would be $3.25 Mill.)
    2. If they rewarded the ACCCG to the higher ranked/seeded team and let them split the revenue
    much like a typical home game. (That should generate an extra $5 to 7 million for the home team)
    3. IF they let the bowl teams keep a much larger share of the bowl game revenue, then that would
    be several more million in the case of BCS.
    4. If they realigned the divisions to be more travel friendly. Home stadiums more full.

    Look, I'm not saying they will do any or all of that. This is just hypothetical based on @#$%'s article and my
    own thoughts.
    There is some reason to hope. I don't remember the game, but ?half? way through the ACC season after
    yet another horrendous one sided officiating performance, something happened. The ACC let the officials
    know that wasn't OK.
    From then on, we got decent officiating. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't perfect for both teams. It was patently
    obvious to those of us who really watch closely that the officiating changed. That could have only come from
    up above. My point is the ACC can act. We had been complaining for years, so why did it suddenly change?
    Did we finally exert our considerable influence? (read threaten to leave) Is the ACC beginning to shift their
    thinking in the wake of losing Maryland? I don't know, but the Carrier can be turned around, just apparently
    not quickly.

    I'm just afraid the ACC will wait too long.
    The Big 12 has rebounded from what many thought was a death knell. Will the ACC? I don't know!
    If we leave, the only way they stay a major football conference would be for Notre Dame to join in full.
    You know that ND won't do that under an 'Equal Revenue Sharing" model, so why doesn't the ACC
    act now to maximize the product?

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Tom81 on 1/17/2013 at 5:30 AM

    Tom81

  • I think the whole argument is silly, of course it can be saved, and will be if we do our part. I think most are forgetting about the 5 year look in, which means that if the ACC builds up the brand can then go to ESPN and say, "we're now worth 27 million per team based on our product and other conferences revenues". Of course will say no, but I'm sure if there's no agreement there's some form of mediation that goes on. In short, if FSU, Clemson, VT, UNC and Miami/GT do our part the contract will get a major boost.

    Noleville

  • Noleville said...

    I think the whole argument is silly, of course it can be saved, and will be if we do our part. I think most are forgetting about the 5 year look in, which means that if the ACC builds up the brand can then go to ESPN and say, "we're now worth 27 million per team based on our product and other conferences revenues". Of course will say no, but I'm sure if there's no agreement there's some form of mediation that goes on. In short, if FSU, Clemson, VT, UNC and Miami/GT do our part the contract will get a major boost.

    so do you give wake, duke, bc, and the other teams a pass? how many schools are truly concerned with football in the acc? why does duke get the same in football as fsu when they dont go to bowl games very often? why would espn redo the contract? they have the acc at a great price for them the acc needs new leadership if it wants to survive as a football conference.

    signature image

    bomftdrum

  • I am only responding with what I know, so don't take it as MY point of view.

    FSU is NOT the ratings draw people on these message boards think it is, for instance the ND-BC game outdrew every FSU game this yr, with the exception of Clemson, and in that case, it was within .7.

    FSU was once a HUGE draw, and at that time the ACC had the best media deal out there, however people qill quickly retort, "Is FSU supposed to carry the conference?"

    Answer is a simple, Yes. Just like Texas carries the B12. You get paid what you are worth in this world, not what you think you should, the value just is not there for a huge SEC type deal, and with no real option out there for FSU to leave, it comes down to one simple thing, How do you improve the conference?

    -expansion? Swofford has very mixed reviews on this, VT was an excellent add, Miami not so much, and BC has been a disaster. Now you bring in two programs with a rich, albeit old history in Pitt and Syracuse. Cuse just lost their HC, so they likely drop back next year, Pitt is still trying to find itself, so both of these two are question marks. Of course the grand slam would be getting ND to add 3 more conf games, so as far as this goes, if I were the ACC this is where I would focus all my resources for this topic.

    -Media deals, while originally designed a sa way to market your conference to your alumni/booster base (read MORE donation $$, which is the bread n butter of any AD) they now in this day n age have gotten ridiculous, due to the fact, sports are one of the last bastions of live TV, where advertisers can be secure in the fact their ads are not being FF'd through on a DVR, hence the B10 looking at the mid-atlantic and the ACC gobbling up schools in major media markets. Now nobody for sure knows the exact details of any fo these deals, but one has to think if all the member schools sign off on it, then they feel it has the value they need. Sidenote here, 6 ACC schools are in the top 50 of highest endowments in the country (that includes Ivy league high end private schools, etc)...this brings me back to value, these other schools may look at FSU and to a lesser extent Clemson and Vt and say "Ok, you want a better deal, where is YOUR value?"...(example Duke is around #44 I believe...and they are a standard top 3 for hoops ratings), what you have in the ACC more than any other conference is class warfare, somehow there needs to be a middle ground.

    Finally, marketing. Hey the ACC just had a great bowl season, and were a Duke fumble from being 5-1, and you know how we know? Because we posted it on internet message boards. Every member school, fanbase, coach, conference admin people, etc need to be taking their cue from the SEC and start representing the conf. The ACC doesn't even do this with hoops, so they need to market themselves much better, perception is reality.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    I am only responding with what I know, so don't take it as MY point of view.

    FSU is NOT the ratings draw people on these message boards think it is, for instance the ND-BC game outdrew every FSU game this yr, with the exception of Clemson, and in that case, it was within .7.

    FSU was once a HUGE draw, and at that time the ACC had the best media deal out there, however people qill quickly retort, "Is FSU supposed to carry the conference?"

    Answer is a simple, Yes. Just like Texas carries the B12. You get paid what you are worth in this world, not what you think you should, the value just is not there for a huge SEC type deal, and with no real option out there for FSU to leave, it comes down to one simple thing, How do you improve the conference?

    -expansion? Swofford has very mixed reviews on this, VT was an excellent add, Miami not so much, and BC has been a disaster. Now you bring in two programs with a rich, albeit old history in Pitt and Syracuse. Cuse just lost their HC, so they likely drop back next year, Pitt is still trying to find itself, so both of these two are question marks. Of course the grand slam would be getting ND to add 3 more conf games, so as far as this goes, if I were the ACC this is where I would focus all my resources for this topic.

    -Media deals, while originally designed a sa way to market your conference to your alumni/booster base (read MORE donation $$, which is the bread n butter of any AD) they now in this day n age have gotten ridiculous, due to the fact, sports are one of the last bastions of live TV, where advertisers can be secure in the fact their ads are not being FF'd through on a DVR, hence the B10 looking at the mid-atlantic and the ACC gobbling up schools in major media markets. Now nobody for sure knows the exact details of any fo these deals, but one has to think if all the member schools sign off on it, then they feel it has the value they need. Sidenote here, 6 ACC schools are in the top 50 of highest endowments in the country (that includes Ivy league high end private schools, etc)...this brings me back to value, these other schools may look at FSU and to a lesser extent Clemson and Vt and say "Ok, you want a better deal, where is YOUR value?"...(example Duke is around #44 I believe...and they are a standard top 3 for hoops ratings), what you have in the ACC more than any other conference is class warfare, somehow there needs to be a middle ground.

    Finally, marketing. Hey the ACC just had a great bowl season, and were a Duke fumble from being 5-1, and you know how we know? Because we posted it on internet message boards. Every member school, fanbase, coach, conference admin people, etc need to be taking their cue from the SEC and start representing the conf. The ACC doesn't even do this with hoops, so they need to market themselves much better, perception is reality.

    You mention that the ND-BC game outdrew every FSU game this year...well ND isn't a fair comparison. They are the # 1 ratings draw on the planet.

    I'd bet FSU, on the whole, averaged pretty well in comparison to everyone else. It still is a name brand and worth plenty to any conference that would like a Florida footprint.

    The WarNole

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    Finally, marketing. Hey the ACC just had a great bowl season, and were a Duke fumble from being 5-1, and you know how we know? Because we posted it on internet message boards. Every member school, fanbase, coach, conference admin people, etc need to be taking their cue from the SEC and start representing the conf. The ACC doesn't even do this with hoops, so they need to market themselves much better, perception is reality.

    I sincerely disagree with you here.

    The 7 national championships in a row provides their pulpit. Take those away and the SEC is just like it was in the 90's... comparable... average....

    You can sell all you want...People aren't going to listen to your conference pedaling until you win at least 3+ in a row... That includes football, basketball, baseball, etc..

    We can't boast like the SEC, because we don't produce the results. Neither does anybody else.

    This post was edited by FsuFanForever on 1/17/2013 at 8:30 AM

    signature image

    Jaboo. Has. Arrived. Your. End. Is. Nigh.

    FsuFanForever ●

  • Bottom line: FSU stays in the ACC and it will simply be a matter of time before we are a 2nd tier program. We'll be keepin company w/ USF/UCF/Conf USA type teams. Dunzo.

    levynole

  • FsuFanForever said...

    I sincerely disagree with you here.

    The 7 national championships in a row provides their pulpit. Take those away and the SEC is just like it was in the 90's... comparable... average....

    You can sell all you want...People aren't going to listen to your conference pedaling until you win at least 3+ in a row... That includes football, basketball, baseball, etc..

    We can't boast like the SEC, because we don't produce the results. Neither does anybody else.

    Well this is why PR firms make a boatload of money.

    Its "Kardashian" marketing.

    That said, if we could somehow get in the SEC, then this would all be moot.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • A huge factor in our "poor" ratings is that we never play in any big games because of this conference. Not to mention the ND reference is not really fair. Not only are they far and away #1 in ratings on a consistent basis, but they were undefeated this year.

    This whole take pride in the ACC thing is ludicrous. What exactly are we taking pride in?

    signature image

    "Some people think football is a matter of life and death, I assure you, it is much more serious than that."

    crozea55 ●

  • During the bowl season, FSU vs Northern Illinois had significantly higher ratings that LSU vs Clemson and virtually the same as Florida vs Louisville.

    Considering our opponent, those are some pretty good numbers ... unless it was Northern Illinois that people tuned in to watch.

    Sports Media Watch – 2012-13 College Football Bowl TV Ratings: BCS, SEC, Top the Charts

    Related College Football Wrap: TV Ratings For (Almost) Every Game This Season

    www.sportsmediawatch.com

    GSNole

  • crozea55 said...

    A huge factor in our "poor" ratings is that we never play in any big games because of this conference. Not to mention the ND reference is not really fair. Not only are they far and away #1 in ratings on a consistent basis, but they were undefeated this year.

    This whole take pride in the ACC thing is ludicrous. What exactly are we taking pride in?

    Look the question was how to save the ACC? Now if it were, where should FSU go?

    We'd be engaged in a healthy talk about the SEC.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • I don't think there's anything in ACC football that is worth bragging about, IMO. Outside of Clemson, VT, and UM... there's really no competition or huge traveling fan base so our stadium may be filled near capacity no more than twice a year. That isn't gonna cut it if we stay in this conference. Like mentioned before, we will be a B tier program. We are in a football state, we are a football school, we need to be in a competitive football conference.

    signature image signature image

    joeandre04

  • I don't even like thinking about the direction the ACC and FSU football is going. We will go down with the ship if we don't get off it. Plain and simple.

    FSUBone ●

  • levynole said...

    Bottom line: FSU stays in the ACC and it will simply be a matter of time before we are a 2nd tier program. We'll be keepin company w/ USF/UCF/Conf USA type teams. Dunzo.

    Untrue.

    FSU has always been behind the "powerhouses" in finances. It was true in the 1990s, it's true now and it will be true in the future. Even despite the poor TV deal and smaller booster population, FSU still generates revenue in the top-85% (!!!!!) of college football.That's higher than Nebraska and USC west. The real money generator for schools is from contributions. UF made $27 million from TV last year but generated $123 million overall!

    In short, we need to keep pushing to increase our booster base.

    fsukum ●

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    I am only responding with what I know, so don't take it as MY point of view.

    FSU is NOT the ratings draw people on these message boards think it is, for instance the ND-BC game outdrew every FSU game this yr, with the exception of Clemson, and in that case, it was within .7.

    FSU was once a HUGE draw, and at that time the ACC had the best media deal out there, however people qill quickly retort, "Is FSU supposed to carry the conference?"

    Answer is a simple, Yes. Just like Texas carries the B12. You get paid what you are worth in this world, not what you think you should, the value just is not there for a huge SEC type deal, and with no real option out there for FSU to leave, it comes down to one simple thing, How do you improve the conference?

    -expansion? Swofford has very mixed reviews on this, VT was an excellent add, Miami not so much, and BC has been a disaster. Now you bring in two programs with a rich, albeit old history in Pitt and Syracuse. Cuse just lost their HC, so they likely drop back next year, Pitt is still trying to find itself, so both of these two are question marks. Of course the grand slam would be getting ND to add 3 more conf games, so as far as this goes, if I were the ACC this is where I would focus all my resources for this topic.

    -Media deals, while originally designed a sa way to market your conference to your alumni/booster base (read MORE donation $$, which is the bread n butter of any AD) they now in this day n age have gotten ridiculous, due to the fact, sports are one of the last bastions of live TV, where advertisers can be secure in the fact their ads are not being FF'd through on a DVR, hence the B10 looking at the mid-atlantic and the ACC gobbling up schools in major media markets. Now nobody for sure knows the exact details of any fo these deals, but one has to think if all the member schools sign off on it, then they feel it has the value they need. Sidenote here, 6 ACC schools are in the top 50 of highest endowments in the country (that includes Ivy league high end private schools, etc)...this brings me back to value, these other schools may look at FSU and to a lesser extent Clemson and Vt and say "Ok, you want a better deal, where is YOUR value?"...(example Duke is around #44 I believe...and they are a standard top 3 for hoops ratings), what you have in the ACC more than any other conference is class warfare, somehow there needs to be a middle ground.

    Finally, marketing. Hey the ACC just had a great bowl season, and were a Duke fumble from being 5-1, and you know how we know? Because we posted it on internet message boards. Every member school, fanbase, coach, conference admin people, etc need to be taking their cue from the SEC and start representing the conf. The ACC doesn't even do this with hoops, so they need to market themselves much better, perception is reality.

    You're selling FSU short. Since 1998, FSU is #2 nationally in bowl ratings. They increase viewership by 22.6%.

    For reference, Michigan is 5th nationally with an increase in viewership of 12.0%. Notice the huge gap between #2 and #5?

    Some ACC schools (4 of the 5 worst in the nation):

    Virginia: -18.3%
    NC State: -17%
    Georgia Tech: -14.7%
    Clemson: -7.9%

    Perhaps now you'll understand why FSU fans feel as if they deserve more from the ACC. It might also help you understand why FSU's rating numbers were down this year: We face some of the worst TV rating teams in the nation every year.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by fsukum on 1/17/2013 at 3:42 PM

    fsukum ●

  • fsukum said...

    You're selling FSU short. Since 1998, FSU is #2 nationally in bowl ratings. They increase viewership by 22.6%.

    For reference, Michigan is 5th nationally with an increase in viewership of 12.0%. Notice the huge gap between #2 and #5?

    Some ACC schools (4 of the 5 worst in the nation):

    Virginia: -18.3% NC State: -17% Georgia Tech: -14.7% Clemson: -7.9%

    Perhaps now you'll understand why FSU fans feel as if they deserve more from the ACC. It might also help you understand why FSU's rating numbers were down this year: We face some of the worst TV rating teams in the nation every year.

    I thought about the bowl thing, it seems we always (until this yr, but had decent ratings) get a good matchup as well, so yes matchups (ACC schools) play into bad ratings as well.

    I am not selling FSU short, but people need to stop thinking we are this huge ratings monster, we haven't been that since the early 2000's.

    BTW I am Pro-SEC/Anti-B12...as far as expansion for us, just in case someone thinks I am in the ACC mafia.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • ACC mafia using the 'FSU isn't really very good with TV ratings' to somehow makes us feel better about the ACC?

    Think playing Wake or BC in football has anything to do with that?

    If FSU isn't anything in TV ratings, than the ACC might as well be conference USA and let's get OUT.

    ACC mafia's point .....'FSU isn't very good and should just shut up and be happy with this conference that stinks and treats FSU poorly'.

    Do FSU fans really buy into this debating strategy?

    Why do you feel the need to insult FSU in your ACC mafia blitz to drive opinion of ACC above ALL ELSE....including FSU?

    Really....that is how you are convincing FSU fans to want to stay in the ACC....by telling us how little FSU is worth?

    ACC mafia must be getting paid by Swofford or sleeping with him....or just out of their minds.

    55Nole

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    I am not selling FSU short, but people need to stop thinking we are this huge ratings monster, we haven't been that since the early 2000's.

    Welp, the figures say we are still. But even of they weren't, history shows us that they have the potential too be a ratings monster.

    BTW, it there have been a lot of "good match-ups" in the bowl season since 1998. You don't increase viewership over 15 bowl games by 22% by dumb luck, especially when most of those games are second rate bowls. There's a reason the viewership is up when FSU plays and it's not just because of match-ups.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by fsukum on 1/17/2013 at 7:28 PM

    fsukum ●

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    I thought about the bowl thing, it seems we always (until this yr, but had decent ratings) get a good matchup as well, so yes matchups (ACC schools) play into bad ratings as well.

    I am not selling FSU short, but people need to stop thinking we are this huge ratings monster, we haven't been that since the early 2000's.

    BTW I am Pro-SEC/Anti-B12...as far as expansion for us, just in case someone thinks I am in the ACC mafia.

    The problem isn't that your opinion differs from mine.
    It is that you don't back it up with facts.

    As has been referenced a 13 year bowl study from 98 to 2010
    showed FSU 2nd behind Michigan in ratings. Bear in mind that most of those
    years were down years for us.

    Also there was an article on TN that talked about relative TV strengths that
    showed that FSU is a huge ratings draw.

    The fact that FSU vs NIU drew more TV viewers than Louisville/UF, USCe and Mich
    Clemson and LSU, shows our power to tune in viewers.

    Do you honestly think that NIU was the cause of that?

    This post was edited by Tom81 on 1/17/2013 at 10:15 PM

    Which schools are most attractive to TV viewers? - Tomahawk Nation

    Ill probably need to take time to post this in more detail, but after reading the conference realignment discussions - I wanted to know - which teams attract the most viewers and which the...

    www.tomahawknation.com

    Tom81

  • This 2010 WSJ article in 2010 shows FSU #2 only behind USC in bringing bowl ratings.

    After this article, FSU had HUGE ratings with ND in the Orlando Bowl and with NIU this year increased ratings 44%.

    I imagine FSU is #1 today. This over a 15 year study.

    15 years isn't a one off or due to teams FSU plays.

    Despite this we will still hear from the ACC mafia how FSU isn't worth much and should just shut up and be thankful the ACC will have us.

    Why some are loyal to a conference over FSU is beyond me.

    Which Teams Rule the Bowl Ratings? - WSJ.com

    To figure out which teams are the most popular TV draws during the bowl season, we looked at the national viewership figures for every bowl since 1998.

    online.wsj.com

    55Nole

  • Are we talking bowl ratings or conference ratings?

    I am confused, they are two completely different entities.

    In 2011 FSU's highest rated regular season game was OU, now before the B12 mafia shows up, lets remember that game was hyped for 2 months solid by ESPN, it was the National primetime game with no other game on, and it was early enough int eh season, where both teams were ranked if I recall top 6 or so. This yr it was Clemson, same scenario, maybe not as much hype, I think the OU game was a 7 and Clemson was a 4.7 or close to it. (sorry kids are running around, and driving me nuts)

    The bowl numbers are a bit skewed as well, FSU always seems to draw a good matchup, even in the yrs we were nothing more than average. I think our worst bowl ratings games, in the last 10 yrs were UCLA in the Nut bowl, UK in the whatever that was bowl (where the music appreciation artists were suspended) and I want to say Wisky in the Champs. (again going off memory here)

    Again, and this is my opinion, Bowls and conf ratings are two separate entities. When you are playing ND, a few days after Christmas with a 1730 kickoff, considering people are off from work (mostly) sure they are going to tune in. Problem is Bowl games do not pay the bills.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • 55Nole said...

    ACC mafia using the 'FSU isn't really very good with TV ratings' to somehow makes us feel better about the ACC?

    Think playing Wake or BC in football has anything to do with that?

    If FSU isn't anything in TV ratings, than the ACC might as well be conference USA and let's get OUT.

    ACC mafia's point .....'FSU isn't very good and should just shut up and be happy with this conference that stinks and treats FSU poorly'.

    Do FSU fans really buy into this debating strategy?

    Why do you feel the need to insult FSU in your ACC mafia blitz to drive opinion of ACC above ALL ELSE....including FSU?

    Really....that is how you are convincing FSU fans to want to stay in the ACC....by telling us how little FSU is worth?

    ACC mafia must be getting paid by Swofford or sleeping with him....or just out of their minds.

    Ok once again, I am done here for a bit...when you want to have a mature discussion, let me know, callingme the "Acc Mafia" because I am not a B12 sheeple is well a waste of my time.

    Pbenuncensored26482 ●

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    Ok once again, I am done here for a bit...when you want to have a mature discussion, let me know, callingme the "Acc Mafia" because I am not a B12 sheeple is well a waste of my time.

    Thats mature, he called you the ACC Mafia so you called him a B12 sheeple. He seems to be backing up his opinion with linked numbers. How are those numbers wrong? It looks like two different studies show that FSU is a major ratings draw.

    signature image signature image

    Fantomex

  • Pbenuncensored26482 said...

    Ok once again, I am done here for a bit...when you want to have a mature discussion, let me know, callingme the "Acc Mafia" because I am not a B12 sheeple is well a waste of my time.

    I never said anything about the Big 12.

    Realignment is much bigger than the Big 12.

    Mature discussion? Like you and the ACC mafia do on warchant with anyone who disagrees gets insulted and named called by 5-10 posters relentlessly? Never once saw you take issue with one of yours insulting and questioning the intelligence of other posters when they questioned the ACC.

    That mafia is even ripping Dotcom over there for his 'biased' article on expansion.

    Mature discussion? That is rich coming from any member of the ACC mafia.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by 55Nole on 1/18/2013 at 8:02 AM

    55Nole

  • fsukum said...

    Untrue.

    FSU has always been behind the "powerhouses" in finances. It was true in the 1990s, it's true now and it will be true in the future. Even despite the poor TV deal and smaller booster population, FSU still generates revenue in the top-85% (!!!!!) of college football.That's higher than Nebraska and USC west. The real money generator for schools is from contributions. UF made $27 million from TV last year but generated $123 million overall!

    In short, we need to keep pushing to increase our booster base.

    I'm failing to see how we can expand booster contributions/base when we are mired in a terrible conference, playing crappy comp, officiated by incompetent refs and mismanged by pathetic fools such as Spetman and a prez that needs to stay on the academic side of the fence. How does that formula end up anywhere but hind tit?

    It's your choice if you want to whistle past the big boy football neighborhood on your way to mediocrity but don't be surprised when the reality of being the new Big East comes to fruition.

    levynole

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