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RUMOR: FSU and Clemson Have Contacted the Big 12

  • thebear612 said...

    Ill throw one in that no one is talking about. FSU academics has received millions in grants and other educational gifts and endowments because of our affiliation with the ACC. The school has been trying for some time to continue and increase the educational aspects of our fine institution .

    Please dont bring up US News and World report rankings...Very few schools use it other than for grads to brag.... There are all other type of matrix's involved....

    So this is not just a football question.....at least to the people who make the decisions.

    Actually, it is a football question & that is all it has ever been & ever will be...

    so when UT & OU called (yes, OU called as well) it is prudent to listen to see what type of long-term possibilties exist.

    TNOLE27

  • thebear612 said...

    And this opens up another interesting aspect and that is how the University has handled the fund raising; Foundations; Endowments: etc, etc.....

    Also just because we are net neutral over the last few years doesnt mean that we have not benefited from our ACC affiliations, if anything some would claim it has saved us....

    I'd be interested in hearing more, if you would care to share.

    farnsworth

  • farnsworth said...

    I'd be interested in hearing more, if you would care to share.

    I really would too. I just have never heard a good answer on WHY academics matter in terms of a conference. I'm not doubting you personally, nor that you heard that from those that would know, I just don't see it.

    Thechief289

  • TNOLE27 said...

    Actually, it is a football question & that is all it has ever been & ever will be...

    so when UT & OU called (yes, OU called as well) it is prudent to listen to see what type of long-term possibilties exist.

    Who exactly do you think makes these decisions? It's not athletics directors.

    This is not just a football issue, it's a university issue. Go back to the early 90s expansions. No school has gone from a stronger academic conference to a lesser one for a reason. There have been plenty of lateral moves, but no downgrades.

    Saying this is football only is a fundamental misunderstanding of dozens of major issues that go into these moves.

  • FSU_fsugrad1999 said...

    Who exactly do you think makes these decisions? It's not athletics directors.

    This is not just a football issue, it's a university issue. Go back to the early 90s expansions. No school has gone from a stronger academic conference to a lesser one for a reason. There have been plenty of lateral moves, but no downgrades.

    Saying this is football only is a fundamental misunderstanding of dozens of major issues that go into these moves.

    True, and I think that is what so many people are missing.

    It's the University Presidents/Chancellors who actually make the decisions, and to quote a friend, "in order to get along, we must go along." That would be true in any conference, but I imagine that in the B12, it would mean doing what Texas told us to do. We don't have that issue in the ACC.

    farnsworth

  • farnsworth said...

    True, and I think that is what so many people are missing.

    It's the University Presidents/Chancellors who actually make the decisions, and to quote a friend, "in order to get along, we must go along." That would be true in any conference, but I imagine that in the B12, it would mean doing what Texas told us to do. We don't have that issue in the ACC.

    Its about Money-and that comes from football.

    If it was about academics the faculty senate would have a vote.

    TNOLE27

  • As someone who enjoys traveling to local campuses to watch FSU, I am not in support of a decision to join the Big 12. If it isn't the SEC, stay put.

    Twitter: http://twitter.com/Sean_Breslin My blog: http://breslinsports.com

    sean_breslin

  • TNOLE27 said...

    Its about Money-and that comes from football.

    If it was about academics the faculty senate would have a vote.

    The amount of money athletics brings in is about two percent of what academics brings in

  • farnsworth said...

    True, and I think that is what so many people are missing.

    It's the University Presidents/Chancellors who actually make the decisions, and to quote a friend, "in order to get along, we must go along." That would be true in any conference, but I imagine that in the B12, it would mean doing what Texas told us to do. We don't have that issue in the ACC.

    Which is the problem with Texas. They (and ESPN) shopped themselves, and the Longhorn Network, to everyone last summer, including the ACC.

    A week after they approached us, we invited Syracuse and Pitt, so guess how far that conversation got. UT is used to being able to do whatever they want, which isn't how the ACC has ever worked. It's been all for one, one for all from the start and that's never going to change.

  • farnsworth said...

    Actually, research has been flat for longer than five years. FSU was bringing in a good bit of money from Taxol. When the patent expired, we lost that cash cow.

    Attempts are being made to turn it around, but, as with all things in academia, change takes a long time.

    Well royalties and research grants are two different revenue streams. But the point remains, there is NOTHING to support the claim that the ACC has improved FSU academically.

    tricknole

  • Again, I have yet to hear a reason on why a conference affiliation affects academics?

    If both Harvard and Alabama wanted in to the ACC, would we take Harvard? I doubt it.

    Thechief289

  • farnsworth said...

    Actually, I have to support Bear in this.

    I was pleasantly surprised last fall after meeting with some development folks how we suddenly had become more proactive.

    And, the Research Foundation is stepping it up.

    Huh? "Suddenly?" You're talking about since Barron took over? 20 years AFTER we joined the ACC?

    tricknole

  • tricknole said...

    Huh? "Suddenly?" You're talking about since Barron took over? 20 years AFTER we joined the ACC?

    No need to get snippy, tricknole.

    I have been more involved with FSU in the last 5 years than I was in the previous 15. I merely stated my observations. I did not state anything as fact, nor have I stated anything with regard to FSU receiving monetary benefits from being in the ACC with regards to academics.

    farnsworth

  • thebear612 said...

    Actually it is true. I had dinner with two individuals less than 2 months ago (whom all on this board would know their names) and they specifically stated such. Now in all honesty I didnt ask for details...because I didnt really care...LOL.... But because this has opened a new wound or two with a couple of people, I may put a phone call for a few details...

    If it is true it should be easy to provide evidence to support that claim. For example, from 2004-2008 we increased total research from $168M to $182M. That's not even a 10% increase over the span of 4 years. Tennessee ($242M), Florida ($584M), LSU ($273M), Kentucky ($337M), Vanderbilt ($423M), Mississippi State ($211M) and Georgia ($350M) are all SEC schools - you know, that inferior academic conference - that conduct more research than FSU. That's 7 out of the current 12 schools.

    Guess I'm not seeing how the ACC has helped us.

    tricknole

  • farnsworth said...

    No need to get snippy, tricknole.

    I have been more involved with FSU in the last 5 years than I was in the previous 15. I merely stated my observations. I did not state anything as fact, nor have I stated anything with regard to FSU receiving monetary benefits from being in the ACC with regards to academics.

    You were agreeing and responding to thebear who has been saying that FSU has received an academic boost due to being a member of the ACC. We are making changes because when Barron came in he said our fundraising efforts were shit.

    tricknole

  • No, just to get the same by texas. Bite me

    signature image

    fsujl11

  • sean_breslin said...

    As someone who enjoys traveling to local campuses to watch FSU, I am not in support of a decision to join the Big 12. If it isn't the SEC, stay put.

    Well if several ACC schools left for the Big 12 - let's say Miami, GT and Clemson, among others - it wouldn't be much different than the ACC, would it? With Cuse, Pitt and BC all joining the ACC. Texas isn't really further than Virginia and Maryland, either, is it? shrug

    tricknole

  • FSU_fsugrad1999 said...

    The amount of money athletics brings in is about two percent of what academics brings in

    Yes, it is less. However, the academic money is unrelated to conference affiliation

    TNOLE27

  • fsujl11 said...

    No, just to get the same by texas. Bite me

    We won't leave for that arrangement.

    BTW, if academics are an issue, WE WLL NEVER, EVER GO TO THE SEC

    to be in a conference that has LSU, ARK, the Miss. shools and lest we forget Auburn-the school that almost lost its acceditaton 5-6 years ago.

    TNOLE27

  • The fact of the matter is that this is/was totally a rumor started by a WVU fan. On every site where it's posted, it takes on a life of its own.

    Any discussions with the B12 are over, done. That's why they've been trying to shore up their conference with the BE.

    But, carry on. It's entertaining, to say the least.

    farnsworth

  • farnsworth said...

    The fact of the matter is that this is/was totally a rumor started by a WVU fan. On every site where it's posted, it takes on a life of its own.

    Any discussions with the B12 are over, done. That's why they've been trying to shore up their conference with the BE.

    But, carry on. It's entertaining, to say the least.

    There is more to it than a rumor. However, the big 12 Poaching more schools from the BE was an internet rumor started by the WVU SID offce.

    TNOLE27

  • ...

    This post was edited by thebear612 on 1/30/2012 at 2:47 PM

    thebear612

  • Seems there are a few moving parts in this thread...

    The first is what is in the best interest of FSU sports, namely football.

    The second is if being in a higher academic conference helps the school with its academia rankings and if it helps with grants and similar monies.

    The third is if being in a higher academia conference helps the school raise money for either sports or academics via donations, endowment, etc.....

    I like having discussions, disagreements....but lets try and continue to keep the tone above board....

    With that said anyone who disagrees with me can &&%&^)()(*(*^&)(&*!!!

    Just kidding...

    anyway, the University and the BOD would value the above from most important to least as..... 2,3,1

    thebear612

  • thebear612 said...

    And this opens up another interesting aspect and that is how the University has handled the fund raising; Foundations; Endowments: etc, etc.....

    Also just because we are net neutral over the last few years doesnt mean that we have not benefited from our ACC affiliations, if anything some would claim it has saved us....

    Just not based in fact.

    Please name one large grant FSU has gotten due to it's affiliiation to the ACC. I am not aware of a single one. Let alone 'millions and millions' worth.

    Additionally, since 1999, FSU's research has grown at a 7% clip. UF has grown at an 8% clip, USF, 9%, and UCF 13%. Even with FSU winning a lottery in Taxol money and this supposed benefit of ACC membership, FSU was still 4th in the state in research grant growth.

    FSU's endowment ranking in 2002 was 128. It has since fallen to 138, so I am not sure it can be some benefit to the endowment either.

    The only conference that has any academic benefit is the Big 10 due to the CIC consortium, which is a very strong, very real group that works closely as a conference and pushes more than just perception.. I don't see how simply playing football with Duke rubs off on FSU academically in any fashion, and I would imagine Duke (UVA, UNC, etc) would say the same.

    That said, I do agree FSU should push to have some SUBSTANCE behind the academics of the ACC and not just the superficial aspect people believe has some affect.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by 55Nole on 1/30/2012 at 6:22 PM

    55Nole

  • ...

    This post was edited by thebear612 on 1/30/2012 at 7:03 PM

    thebear612

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