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OT: Paterno's Funeral

  • Cuthbert said...

    I wish I could ask one of these people, because I am honestly befuddled at how people can be mad at others for how JoePa was "treated" the last several months. He brought it entirely on himself, as he indicated in his own testimony. Children's lives were ruined, in part, because of his arrogance and narcissism towards his legacy and success at PSU. As he even admitted, he "should have done more" than essentially nothing--which is what he did.

    The power and cache that made him one of the most powerful and beloved persons in the state also makes him that much more culpable for helping cover those acts up, IMO.

    I honestly don't disagree with one word of that post. And I know a lot of "those people" because my family is from Cental PA.

    What I've told them, and what I have said a few times on this board, is lets wait until all the facts come out before we judge Paterno's legacy. There are multiple investigations going on right now, including one le by Louis Freeh. They will determine who knew what and when they knew it.

    If Joe was aware of multiple incidents and tried to cover it up, then all these supporters will see the light and he will be viewed more harshly by everyone.

    If he really was only told of the one incident and referred it to the head of the campus police like his supporters claim, then we're going to need to reassess our understanding of his culpability.

    One way or another, the facts will come out. I don't see the point in arguing about pure conjecture with statements like "he had to know" (even though that's my position) when we're going to know the truth in a few weeks/months.

    Enzo

  • Cuthbert said...

    I wish I could ask one of these people, because I am honestly befuddled at how people can be mad at others for how JoePa was "treated" the last several months. He brought it entirely on himself, as he indicated in his own testimony. Children's lives were ruined, in part, because of his arrogance and narcissism towards his legacy and success at PSU. As he even admitted, he "should have done more" than essentially nothing--which is what he did.

    The power and cache that made him one of the most powerful and beloved persons in the state also makes him that much more culpable for helping cover those acts up, IMO.

    I'm not one of those Joe apologists, but I often ask, what more could he have done?

    Paterno didn't witness the act, and was never told anything about rape, just something that was seemingly inappropriate occurred. Paterno called Gary Schultz and Graham Spanier the next day. Schultz oversaw the University Park Police. They carry guns, they can arrest people just like the State Police could. Gary Schultz determines what gets investigated, and he admittingly didn't treat what Paterno and McQueary had told him as very serious. Graham Spanier, the President gets involved, and tells Paterno that Joe doesn't have the authority to ban Sandusky from campus. they tell Sandusky he's no longer entitled to bring kids to the facilities.

    What we do know is Joe followed up with Spanier, and was told that an investigation was ongoing. This occurred 2 or 3 times. 2 or 3 times, Joe was told the same thing.

    I think there's a lot of things wrong with the situation, however I think if you knew nothing about it, you'd think Joe Paterno was the one who was molesting (allegedly) kids. Not enough emphasis has been placed on Jerry Sandusky.

    Pennsylvania's law is just f'd up. Legally, Paterno followed the steps. He reported it to his superiors, one of which oversaw the UP Police Dept. He followed up. I, still don't know to this day what more Paterno could have done, besides putting a bullet in Sandusky's head. You have to be carefuly about contacting the cops and bypassing the proper channels because he didn't witness the act. McQueary did (who later would say he didn't witness anything, he heard sounds and saw Sandusky and the kid in the shower).

    A lot of things are wrong, a lot of things were handled very badly. I think we may be villainizing the wrong individual, myself included. When i first heard it, and read the GJ presentment (which shouldn't have been released...that came from Gov. Tom Corbett's office...another story all together), I wanted everyone out, and immediately.

    I have no issue with the dismissal. My issue comes from the fact that most of the public outrage is directed at 1 individual, and not the person who's been arrested.

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    white_out

  • 2 or 3 times isn't enough. He should have kept asking until the investigation was completed and he was provided with DETAILS regarding its outcome. He should have asked every time he saw Sandusky using PSU's facilities. He should have asked if the police were involved and why not. He should have gone to the police.

    Listen, I think he was genuinely remorseful and torn up when he realized he hadn't done enough. And maybe it was partially a generational thing (the trusting your colleagues, not the child abuse), but that isn't an excuse.

    I can only speak for myself but I have varying levels of outrage for all involved. Sandusky has been charged and will get his due- if he doesn't, I expect vigilante justice to take over. Those who have been exonerated because it wasn't their genitalia need to be discussed.

    FSULaura

  • FSULaura said...

    2 or 3 times isn't enough. He should have kept asking until the investigation was completed and he was provided with DETAILS regarding its outcome. He should have asked every time he saw Sandusky using PSU's facilities. He should have asked if the police were involved and why not. He should have gone to the police.

    Listen, I think he was genuinely remorseful and torn up when he realized he hadn't done enough. And maybe it was partially a generational thing (the trusting your colleagues, not the child abuse), but that isn't an excuse.

    I can only speak for myself but I have varying levels of outrage for all involved. Sandusky has been charged and will get his due- if he doesn't, I expect vigilante justice to take over. Those who have been exonerated because it wasn't their genitalia need to be discussed.

    we don't know what he was told. For all we know he did continue to follow up, or for all we know the snake named Graham Spanier said the investigation is completed and there's nothing to substantiate what McQueary told you.

    Joe Paterno did go to the Police. He went to the individual in charge of the police. The University Park police department. Gary Schultz was the head of the organization. Gary Schultz earlier this month essentially said he disregarded what Paterno and McQueary told him. He's the one who should be vilified. You can only do so much. if you go to someone who is in charge of the police in that jurisdiction, I'd think that you have passed the information to the proper authority.

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    white_out

  • white_out said...

    we don't know what he was told. For all we know he did continue to follow up, or for all we know the snake named Graham Spanier said the investigation is completed and there's nothing to substantiate what McQueary told you.

    Joe Paterno did go to the Police. He went to the individual in charge of the police. The University Park police department. Gary Schultz was the head of the organization. Gary Schultz earlier this month essentially said he disregarded what Paterno and McQueary told him. He's the one who should be vilified. You can only do so much. if you go to someone who is in charge of the police in that jurisdiction, I'd think that you have passed the information to the proper authority.

    But does the university police really have the investigative authority/capability that the local or state police would have?

    Florida State Seminoles -FSU Class of 2010

    nolesfan8

  • These Westboro people are just running a scam. They all belong to one family and most of them are lawyers. Their scam is to provoke anyone and everyone using their "free speech" rights and then sue the crap out of anyone that either violates their free speech or assaults them. They are ripe for a beatdown and if they show up for Jopas funeral they are finally going to get whats coming to them.

    GG30023

  • white_out said...

    we don't know what he was told. For all we know he did continue to follow up, or for all we know the snake named Graham Spanier said the investigation is completed and there's nothing to substantiate what McQueary told you.

    Joe Paterno did go to the Police. He went to the individual in charge of the police. The University Park police department. Gary Schultz was the head of the organization. Gary Schultz earlier this month essentially said he disregarded what Paterno and McQueary told him. He's the one who should be vilified. You can only do so much. if you go to someone who is in charge of the police in that jurisdiction, I'd think that you have passed the information to the proper authority.

    I'm sorry but Joe Paterno was the biggest man on PSU's campus. No one told him what he could do and didn't have the power to do. If Paterno wanted Sandusky banned from campus, it would have happened. If Paterno really wanted to involve the proper authorities, he could have. No one has told Paterno what to do at that university in well over 35 years. The man was God at PSU and could do what he wanted, when he wanted. I hate he has passed away and hate it happened under the circumstances but to try and explain it away as a man that couldn't get those above him to do the right thing is naive. Joe knew the media attention this thing was going to attract and had no intentions of ruining his legacy. He was looking for the easy way out with the maximum amount of plausible deniability. Paterno, Spanier and all admin involved thought this was going to just go away--it didn't.

    TheOriginalBigL

  • white_out said...

    we don't know what he was told. For all we know he did continue to follow up, or for all we know the snake named Graham Spanier said the investigation is completed and there's nothing to substantiate what McQueary told you.

    Joe Paterno did go to the Police. He went to the individual in charge of the police. The University Park police department. Gary Schultz was the head of the organization. Gary Schultz earlier this month essentially said he disregarded what Paterno and McQueary told him. He's the one who should be vilified. You can only do so much. if you go to someone who is in charge of the police in that jurisdiction, I'd think that you have passed the information to the proper authority.

    Check the timeline by the NY Daily News. JS was accused of sex with a kid in the same showers in 1998 and promptly and quietly resigned 6 months later with full privileges. The guy was accused by a DIRECT EYEWITNESS on JoePa's staff in 2002 and JoePa has already testified as to what he knew at that point, which is NOT that the investigation cleared him. It was sex with a boy in JoePa's locker room. Whatever he did at that point, reports indicate Sandusky was told not to have kids on campus any more, but was still allowed use of facilities and was still working for the program making recruiting calls. JoePa allowed him to stick around, knowing full well the man had been having sex with a kid in his showers.

    This was one of the most powerful men in the state of Pennsylvania and his son and supporters would have you believe that he did all could--a report and a few follow up calls (if that).

    You are correct; they all should be vilified because they all let those subsequent victims down. Plenty of blame to go around.

    This post was edited by Cuthbert on 1/23/2012 at 3:58 PM

    PSU timeline: A year-by-year account of the sex scandal - New York Daily News

    1969: Jerry Sandusky begins his coaching career at Penn State University as defensive line coach. 1977: Sandusky founds The Second Mile, a charitable organization designed to help at-risk boys in

    articles.nydailynews.com

    Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumu [My name is Legion, for we are many.]

    Cuthbert

  • white_out said...

    we don't know what he was told. For all we know he did continue to follow up, or for all we know the snake named Graham Spanier said the investigation is completed and there's nothing to substantiate what McQueary told you.

    Joe Paterno did go to the Police. He went to the individual in charge of the police. The University Park police department. Gary Schultz was the head of the organization. Gary Schultz earlier this month essentially said he disregarded what Paterno and McQueary told him. He's the one who should be vilified. You can only do so much. if you go to someone who is in charge of the police in that jurisdiction, I'd think that you have passed the information to the proper authority.

    BTW, is the supposition here that maybe someone told him that, essentially, there was no other witness to the sex in the shower? Even if that was all he knew (which is incredibly unlikely), are you saying that he couldn't have had Sandusky barred for life from the athletic facilities on his word--at a MINIMUM?

    Wouldn't any rational human being in that same position (essentially more important at that school than the school president) do that at the very least?

    Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumu [My name is Legion, for we are many.]

    Cuthbert

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