Unconquered

Are you saying the Big 12 doesn't bring the same presence in basketball or baseball?

Hmmm, I think I will give you the ACC is thought of as a better basketball conference, but Kansas is a pretty big factor in Big 12 basketball. Factor in Texas, Oklahoma St, Oklahoma as teams that have put together Final Four runs in recent years and the fact that Kansas State, Missouri, Texas A&M and Baylor have all spent time in the top 10 recently I just don't think you are giving the Big 12 enough credit.

As far as baseball goes, Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Baylor have all been to the CWS in the last five years and Oklahoma State has 19 CWS appearances. Until the ACC wins a CWS title in the modern day it won't be considered a better league overall than the SEC, Big 12 or PAC 12. There are seasons where it has been considered the best in the country, but not winning the title in those years hurts.

I don't see anyway FSU goes to the Big 12. Seems like it would be a huge burden on the olympic sports with travel, but I don't think many objective observers would give the edge to the ACC in any category except basketball and there can be a case made that over the last 5-7 years the Big 12 has been better in that too.

Lose ATM gain TCU. Not an even trade but does help ease the loss of a good baseball program with an up and comer.

The bottom line is that adding FSU and Clemson to the Big 12 would further elevate the Big 12 TV profile and increase FSU revenues far above anything they will ever see in the ACC.

The Big 12 would be split into 2 divisions so FSU would not be seeing UT and OU in the same year unless FSU wanted it that way, or they met in the league championship game.

The ACC did not have a single football team in the AP top 20 at the end of 2012. The new Big 12 configuration had 6 in the top 20 and UT was not one of them. That reality has everything to do with the huge amount of talent in Texas vs the ACC footprint. In the Big 12, FSU would be able to mine Texas talent in addition to Florida. It would have to be a better recruiting situation for FSU.

Everything but Tier 3 revenues are shared in the Big 12 and this is the case in almost all conferences.

My only point in making these points is that I would love UT to replace A&M with FSU as a rivalry game because i would be conflicted!! It would be a win win for all concerned.

It is kind of relative though. If Missouri was in the Big East they probably would have gone to a BCS game. If aTm was in the Mountain West they may have run through the conference undefeated and been in a BCS game too.

A&M has been a font of mediocrity since 1998, and just got its first bowl win in forever over a 6-6 Northwestern team. TCU played undefeated Boise to the wire in the 2009 Fiesta and went undefeated and beat the Big 10 Champ Wisconsin in 2010 in the Rose Bowl. WVU dominated a good OU team in 2008 and just blew out the ACC champ who beat FSU in 2011.

The SEC wanted A&M and Missouri for TV footprints and easy wins. TCU and WVU are clearly upgrades in football and have a chance to get better by recruiting from a better conference.

And you did nothing to refute my argument.

The Big 12 has made itself toxic to anyone that isn't in the Big East or non-AQ. So, if going to 12 makes sense, you can pick from Louisville, BYU...umm...Rutgers? Cincinnati I guess?

Decision makers have taken a good look at the conference, seen it nearly fall apart twice and have plenty of evidence that it is unstable.

Cmon you don't really believe that do you?

Let's drop conference "strength" for a minute and talk logistics.

Fanbase size, viewership, and wealth ATM is a no-brainer over TCU.

I'll give you WVU slightly over Missouri though but its about even. WVU has a rabid fanbase but their footprint in sticksville WV sucks.

Candy, all I was saying was to keep the discussion in the other 2 threads. If you're too dumb to figure out how to do that then that's really your problem and not mine. It's amusing that you're trying to insult me by calling me "cop" () yet you're acting in the very same manner. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.