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FSU should be top 2-3 in ACC Hoops against next year...

  • I know FSU is losing 6 quality seniors, but the ACC is about to lose some serious talent and Ham has proven that FSU's defense will keep them in games.

    UNC
    - have to think Barnes, Henson, Zeller and Marshall are all gone.
    - UNC is bringing in 4 good recruits, but not like the 4 leaving
    - As we've seen UNC's system lives and dies w/ PG play and Marshall will be hard to replace.
    Duke
    - Rivers is gone: Yes he was more "me" than "we", but he's their best player
    - One Plumlee gone, one Plumlee maybe gone, and one Plumlee yet to play. Not good for their defense
    - No real PG, Thornton and Cook are ballhandlers, not creators
    - Gbinije, Murphy and Sulaimon will have to be studs as Soph or Fr.
    - if the sign Tony Parker and/or Shabazz Muhammad then they'll be just fine, but looks unlikely
    NC State
    - Will be scary if Leslie stays, if he leaves they'll be darn good, but not great
    - Their bringing in the best recruiting class in the conference
    Vir
    - Bennett will have them good for a long time, but they lose Mike Scott, Best player in the league this year IMO
    Miami
    - Grant is gone and I wonder Scott and Johnson don't look to go after suspensions etc...
    - Not bringing in impact Fr.
    Clemson
    - will struggle again w/ loss of their starting backcourt
    Va Tech
    - losing 2 key starters and have to wonder if Seth Greenberg peaked w/ his just out of the tourney teams
    GT/Maryland
    - bringing in really good classes, but still not enough to compete in ACC night in and night out
    BC, Wake
    - don't see big changes coming for either of these teams

    So FSU, Duke, NC St. and UNC are all dealing w/ major changes. I think NC St could be the class of the conference if Leslie stays, but FSU will be in fight w/ these 3 teams all season for spots 1-4

    GeorgiaNole ●

  • You make a good argument.

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    Ain't no cell phones under water!

    Nashnole ●

  • Great post OP.

    -Wake is going to suck again next year. They have had 3 guys transfer in the last few days. The are only bringing back 4 scholarship players (2 who aren't even good) and don't have a great recruiting class coming in.

    -UNC loses Zeller to graduation and should lose the guys the OP mentioned.

    They return Strickland, McDonald, Bullock, Hairston, and McAdoo.

    McAdoo, Bullock, and Hairston were all 5 star recuits. Strickland and McDonald looked good when healthy, while Bullock, McAdoo, and Hairston have shown glimpses. If they can get good PG play, they can be very good again, but probably nothing like this season.

    Duke will have a major dropoff if Plumlee goes pro or if they don't get one of the stud recruits.

    NC State will be very good next year. Maybe even a chance to finish 1st or 2nd.

    UVA loses Scott, Sene, and Zeglinski. They should have a major dropoff

    Maryland will be better if Stoglin comes back. They may even make a big jump in quality. They were young this year and only lose Mosely amongst key contributors. They've got two solid big men recruits coming in too.

    Don't think Miami, GT, Clemson, VT, or BC will be in contention

    Appears that the ACC will once again be down, but I think the bottom teams may be a little more competitive next year (minus Wake).

    If Snaer comes back and we can find a way to solve our PG and big man questions, we can definitely compete for the title.

    JeffSpicNolie

  • No, there are only two players coming back that have played significant minutes, white and miller, assuming snaer leaves. Hamilton screwed himself by playing only seniors. Duke and UNC are going to be good regardless and NC State will be a top 15 team. 7-9 or 6-10 is closer to what we'll be.

    gonoles1 ●

  • gonoles1 said...

    No, there are only two players coming back that have played significant minutes, white and miller, assuming snaer leaves. Hamilton screwed himself by playing only seniors. Duke and UNC are going to be good regardless and NC State will be a top 15 team. 7-9 or 6-10 is closer to what we'll be.

    1. Why are you assuming Snaer is leaving? I actually think he will be back

    2. You are forgetting Shannon, he has played significant minutes and will be back

    734Nole

  • 2 quality seniors are leaving: James and Loucks.

    Agree we could be top 2 in the conference next year if our new bigs round into shape.

    Snaer will be back.

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    The Apex Nole

  • The Apex Nole said...

    2 quality seniors are leaving: James and Loucks.

    Agree we could be top 2 in the conference next year if our new bigs round into shape.

    Snaer will be back.

    Of the Seniors we are losing, James will be the hardest to replace. And the fact that our other two bigs who played a lot are also leaving. Shannon is going to be key next year for this team. Okaro White will probably have to start at the 4 spot too, so I hope he bulks up a little bit.

    To be honest, I think we have guys who can play up to Dulkys and Loucks standards. Both were average players. I think Ian Miller can be better than both of them, and hopefully one of our young guards steps up and takes the other spot.

    734Nole

  • I agree that James is the hardest to replace hands down. Lets face it, Gibson got worse this season if not the last few. He and Kreft ended up just being big bodies out there created turnovers and committed awful fouls for the most part. Yes, they had a few good games but no real consistency. I think Miller and Whisnant will more than cover the loss of Loucks and Dulkys.

    frenchcb83

  • Snaer would be crazy to leave b/c of his need to improve his ball handling and make adjustments to his shooting form. His "deep elbow, and low release" form will make it very hard for him to get shots off in the NBA. I was very impressed with his mid-range improvement and floaters late in the season, but he has to be able to create those shots better.

    The kid really improved but he's right now he's not likely a top 10 SG in the NBA draft. Not b/c he's not better, but b/c of his ceiling. Another year in college, w/ improvement to his ball handling and overall scoring ability, could really move him draft boards.

    As for the rest of the lineup...

    PG - Ian Miller, backed up by Bookert/Brandon
    SG - Snaer, backed up by Whisnant/ Brandon
    SF - White/Thomas, backed up by Whisnant/Brandon
    PF - White/Shannon, backed up by Space
    C - Shannon/Turpin, backed up by Gilchrist

    Also don't be surprised to see FSU bring in another kid in the 2012 class.

    I realize we'd be smaller, but FSU will also be more athletic and be able to handle 3 guard offenses better and probably pick up full court more often. I will say one thing... If Miller leaves (more likely than Snaer IMO) FSU's in trouble, but if he stays Miller, Snaer and White give FSU a very good 3 pronged offensive attack. I know FSU and offense in the same sentence is crazy, but those 3 kids can score.

    GeorgiaNole ●

  • 734Nole said...

    To be honest, I think we have guys who can play up to Dulkys and Loucks standards. Both were average players. I think Ian Miller can be better than both of them, and hopefully one of our young guards steps up and takes the other spot.

    I think we could find some rec league guys who could replace Dulkys. Loucks, while he still had his spurts of mind-blowing decisions, rounded into a very sold PG for us. Much like Kitchen did the year before. He won't be as easy to replace as Dulkys.

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    The Apex Nole

  • One more thing...

    If Aaron Thomas buys in to Ham's defensive system he will be scary good. Kid can flat out play, might be best player to come into FSU in a while. Yes, better than Snaer.

    GeorgiaNole ●

  • GeorgiaNole said...

    Snaer would be crazy to leave b/c of his need to improve his ball handling and make adjustments to his shooting form. His "deep elbow, and low release" form will make it very hard for him to get shots off in the NBA. I was very impressed with his mid-range improvement and floaters late in the season, but he has to be able to create those shots better.

    The kid really improved but he's right now he's not likely a top 10 SG in the NBA draft. Not b/c he's not better, but b/c of his ceiling. Another year in college, w/ improvement to his ball handling and overall scoring ability, could really move him draft boards.

    As for the rest of the lineup...

    PG - Ian Miller, backed up by Bookert/Brandon SG - Snaer, backed up by Whisnant/ Brandon SF - White/Thomas, backed up by Whisnant/Brandon PF - White/Shannon, backed up by Space C - Shannon/Turpin, backed up by Gilchrist

    Also don't be surprised to see FSU bring in another kid in the 2012 class.

    I realize we'd be smaller, but FSU will also be more athletic and be able to handle 3 guard offenses better and probably pick up full court more often. I will say one thing... If Miller leaves (more likely than Snaer IMO) FSU's in trouble, but if he stays Miller, Snaer and White give FSU a very good 3 pronged offensive attack. I know FSU and offense in the same sentence is crazy, but those 3 kids can score.

    It still stuns me that we don't have anyone on this roster who's close to being a true PG.

    Imagine the lineup you posted with a true PG in there.

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    The Apex Nole

  • Aaron Thomas Post Grad Highlights

    Play

    6'4 Aaron Thomas has CRAZY Handles, Bounce...

    Aaron thomas is a 6'4 Ohio native who just completed a postgraduate highschool year at Brewster Academy. He can do it all on the court defend, score and run an offense. He will be playing at Florida state in the acc against the best teams in the country.

    http://www.youtube.com/v/4WqvoY_-Evg

    GeorgiaNole ●

  • BJ was a great player for us and had some excellent games...however, he did not bring it every night. Gibson rarely brought it. What separates good teams from great teams is having 5 guys on the court who freaking bring it, every game, every night. That is exactly why we lost to Cinci, because we could not match their intensity and effort.

    Snaer is arguably the most intense competitor of the Ham era (TP is the only one that imo can match him). Shannon might be the biggest competitor of big men in the Ham era. White plays very hard. Ian can play with fire, but needs to be more consistent. Thomas looks like a gamer. If Turpin, Space, and Gilchrist can play with intensity and have a little skill, I think we'll be a much better team. Turpin was more into our games this year than our big men who played. That's a good sign.

    We had a few guys on our team that just were not gamers. Kreft, Gibson, and Dulkys especially. Those 3 were supposedly lights out in practice, but couldn't match it when it came to gametime. Which is probably a result of their lack of intensity (maybe not as much with Dulkys). I was told preseason that Snaer and Kreft would be the most improved players and that Kreft had been killing it in practice. Didn't happen for him when the lights came on.

    We may not be as experienced or skilled next year, but I think we'll see a team that plays a lot harder, night in, night out. Snaer, Miller, and White are a VERY strong nucleus to build a team around.

    JeffSpicNolie

  • IMO a true point guard in Hamilton's offense would be nothing more than one guard in three in his three out--two under offense. Yes, one guard will be primarily designated to bring the ball up, but then he would not be a dribble penetrator in the traditional sense, i.e. Kendall Marshall. He is absorbed in Hamilton's team outside--inside oriented offensive concept. Ball is thrown to a wing, strong side big man flashes up setting pick on the edge with attempt for dribble curl penetration. Don't recall a time we have hit the big rolling to the basket.

    We see this concept in the Duke program, but Austin Rivers was more "me" oriented instead of "team" oriented to suit Coach K. He is not all that bent out of shape seeing Rivers leave. But the difference in the two programs IMO, is that Duke is more lane attack oriented than the Noles. Key here IMO is attack, we seem to be hesitant in attacking.

    With the traditional PG, SG, SF, PF, C inside--outside concept, a true point guard is essential. But in the 3-2 outside--inside oriented offense we have seen year in year out under Hamilton is why we haven't seen the traditional point guard in our offense. Nor will we IMO. What we've seen is what we can continue to expect.

    ProudtobeaNole

  • FSU is losing something like 60% of their minutes, will be losing 6 of what was essentially a 9 man rotation, and there will be major holes at point guard (losing Loucks and Peterson) and at center/power forward (losing James, Kreft, and Gibson). With Snaer, Miller, White and maybe Shannon, FSU is returning a core that should definitively make the team competitive, and with the rest of the ACC continuing to rebuild, it could be top 4 (hard to pick ahead of UNC, Duke, or NC State), but there's a lot of rebuilding work to be done and many questions to be answered. For the person that said Hamilton screwed himself by giving all the minutes to the 6 seniors - well, I think we can all take some growing pains next year in exchange for the ACC title this year.

    chrisdoc

  • I think there is about a 10% chance that Kendall Marshall leaves, and I would put Henson and Barnes at 30-40% chance. Barnes certainly didnt help his stock with his performance last night. I think you're outlook may be a bit too optomistic regarding our team and others teams

    just my opinion

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    FSU -->----->> The Unconquered Uprising

    crw04d ●

  • frenchcb83 said...

    I agree that James is the hardest to replace hands down. Lets face it, Gibson got worse this season if not the last few. He and Kreft ended up just being big bodies out there created turnovers and committed awful fouls for the most part. Yes, they had a few good games but no real consistency. I think Miller and Whisnant will more than cover the loss of Loucks and Dulkys.

    I was astounded at how nonathletic and disoriented both Gibson and Kreft (two top 50 players coming out of HS) looked this year. Each had decent moments, but man, you expect more out of your big men. At least I do.

    Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumu [My name is Legion, for we are many.]

    Cuthbert

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