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Unconquered

The place to talk about the Florida State Seminoles

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Which team will break the SEC Dominance....

  • Well right now they investing heavily in futures because that next Saban hasn't stepped foward as of yet.. Texas talent with the exception of east Texas has become suburbia.. They soft.. If A&M can lock down east Texas and metro Houston then they can be a major threat..

  • I doubt you will ever see Miami running roughshod over anyone ever again, at least for a prolonged period of time. Most of Miami's title teams were compiled of OOS stars, which I've already shown to you in another thread. Secondly, Miami will never lock down south Florida. There are too many elite programs in the area now and almost every southeastern school now has a successful Florida recruiter. Thirdly, Miami does not have the funding to compete with the southeastern schools. FSU has nearly twice the funding Miami does, now imagine UF's and Alabama's, comparatively. U of L, FSU, Clemson, Virginia, UNC all have better funding than Miami and the ACC and those schools have had much greater success recently than Miami. The facilities are underwhelming at best and the fan support is even worse. When these top recruits take visits, they notice these things. It's not coincidental that Miami's recruiting has been average for a long time now. These recruits see who's really committed to winning and who is not.

    Lastly, the SEC is the king of college football because of the line play. Miami's recruiting up front has been down right horrendous. Until that changes, which doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon, they will remain what they are. They aren't 2-3 years away from being competitive because they don't have the horses on the lines and haven't for years.

    Miami's only claim to success is now with the Jacksonville Jaguars. We'll see how that offense does without him. The defense is more than a player or 3 away from being elite. They are about 15-20 players away from being elite.

  • College football hasn't changed. Money has always ruled the day in college football. The ACC used to have the biggest TV contract and that was when the ACC was a much, much better conference than they are now. The historic contenders like USC, OU, Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, OSU etc. are and were loaded. The SEC came into their own within the last 7 years. Before that, they were never the "premier" conference they are now.

    What has changed is the style of play. The SEC is loading up with size and speed on the line. They were ahead of the game in that regard and everyone is playing catch up to them now. FSU and Miami were the first teams to put their best athletes and fastest athletes on defense in the 1980s and they benefited from it greatly. It took teams years to finally catch up with them.

    Football is cyclical.

  • Kum don't get me wrong; your showing that Miami's best teams were loaded with OOS stars was powerful and compelling.

    I still think, though, that if Muami keeps a few Matthew Thomases and Keith Bryant's at home to go along with their offensive stars, it's scary what they could do.

    Actually, the offensive stars are kinda the ones they've always gotten in-state, right?

  • Kum don't get me wrong; your showing that Miami's best teams were loaded with OOS stars was powerful and compelling.

    I still think, though, that if Muami keeps a few Matthew Thomases and Keith Bryant's at home to go along with their offensive stars, it's scary what they could do.

    Actually, the offensive stars are kinda the ones they've always gotten in-state, right?

  • That's entirely my point. They haven't gotten those guys to stay home for over a decade and that won't change anytime soon, if ever, especially if sanctions hit. There are too many spoons in the bowl, so to speak. Miami is scooping with plastic-ware while others are scooping with silverware. Outside of Duke Johnson, Miami's skill is limited anyways. If he goes down, they are screwed at RB. Also, they lost the mastermind behind their offensive success to Jacksonville.

    One again, though, you can have all the skill players you want, but you won't be a championship contender until you have the horses on the line. It's easier to land the skill guys in Florida, they are everywhere. The SEC separated themselves because of the line. An obvious example would be those Jeff Bowden offenses (Booker, Washing, Davis, etc.) with no line play or Mikey's latter defenses with skill in the back 7, but 270 lb DTs and 230 lb DEs.

    This post was edited by fsukum 13 months ago

  • Miami best players are not from outside of Florida....

    Craig Erickson-Boynton Beach-QB, Randal Hill-Miami Killian-WR, Mike Irvin-WR-Saint Thomas, Brian Blades and Bennie Blades (Ft Lauderdale), Eddie Brown-WR-Miami, Andre Johnson-WR (Miami High), Roscoe Parrish-WR-(Miami High), Santana Moss-WR-(Carol City), Leon Searcy-OT-(Orlando-FL-1st Round), Michael Barrow-LB-(Homestead), Ryan McNeil-DB-(Ft Pierce), Darrin Smith-(Norland), Lamar Thomas-WR-(Gainesville), Yatil Green-(Lake City-1st Round), Kevin Patrick (Lake Worth), Jerome Brown-DT (1st Round Brooksville), Darryl Williams-(American HS-1st Round), Kenny Holems-DE-(Vero Beach), Kennard Lang-DE-(Orlando, FL), Ray Lewis-1st Round-(Kathleen), Earl Little-(North Miami), Duane Starks-DB-(Miami Beach), Ty Wise (Pensacola), Edge James-1st Round (Immokalee), Nate Webster-LB-(Northwestern), Najea Davenport-(Miami Springs), Dan Morgan-LB-(Taravella-1st Round), William Joseph-(Miami Edison-1st Round), Mike Rumph-DB (Delray Atlantic-1st Round), Vernon Carey-(Northwestern-1st Round), Phllip Buchanon-DB-(Ft Myers-1st Round), Clinton Portis-(Gainesville), Willis McGahee-RB-(Miami Springs-1st round), Jerome McDougal-DE-(Ely), Chris Myers-OC-(Miami Palmetto), Jon Vilma-LB-(Coral Gables-1st Round), Vince Wilfork-DT-(Santaluces-1st Round), Frank Gore-RB-(Gables) Kelly Jennings-DB-(Suwanee-1st Round)< Antrel Rolle-(South Dade-1st round),Sean Taylor-DB-(Gulliver Prep-1st Round), Brandon Merriweather-DB-(Apopka 1st Round....these are just some of the good-great players they had on their roster from Florida.....

    Of their Hall of Fame Players (Irvin-Saint Thomas-Ted Hendricks-Hialeah-Ray Lewis-Kathleen, Warren Sapp-Apopka and probably Vince Wilfork Santaluces)....

  • Of all the teams I'd say FSU is as close to a Bama or LSU as anyone, including other sec schools as far as talent. If we develop our talent and have great coaching like I believe we can then we can knock them off within the next three years

  • I said Championship teams, Fish. Your bias is freaking absurd, honestly. I don't know how many times I need post facts that disprove your thoughts on Miami and Coley before it finally sinks in. It's come to a point where I'll just have to use that dandy ignore feature. It's freaking old.

    ----2001----

    2001 offense:

    QB Ken Dorsey- California
    FB Najeh Davenport- North Carolina
    HB Clinton Portis- Mississippi
    TE Jeremy Shockey- Oklahoma
    TE Kellen Winslow Jr.- California
    WR Andre Johnson- Miami
    WR Daryl Jones- Texas
    LT Bryant McKinnie- New Jesey
    LG Sherko Haji-Rasouli- Iran
    C Brett Romberg- Canada
    RG Martin Bibla- New Jersey
    RT Joaquin Gonzalez- Miami

    2001 Defense:

    RE Andrew Williams- Tampa
    DT Matt Walters- Melbourne
    DT William Joseph- Miami
    LE Jerome McDougle- Pompano Beach
    OLB D.J. Williams- California
    MLB Jonathan Vilma- Miami
    OLB Chris Campbell- Texas
    RCB Mike Rumph- Delray Beach
    FS Ed Reed- Louisiana
    SS James Lewis- New Jersey
    LCB Phillip Buchanon- Fort Meyers

    ----1991----
    1991 Offense:

    QB Gino Torretta- California
    FB Stephen McGuire- New York
    RB Larry Jones- Gainsville
    TE Coleman Bell- Tampa
    SE Horace Copeland- Orlando
    FL Lamar Thomas- Ocala
    WT Leon Searcy- Washington DC
    WG Rudy Barber- Auburndale
    C Kelvin Harris- Tampa
    SG Claude Jones- Ft Lauderdale
    ST Mario Cristobal- Miami

    1991 defense:

    RE Rusty Medearis- Missouri
    DT Eric Miller- Wellington
    DT Anthony Hamlet- Delray Beach
    LE Kevin Patrick- Arizona
    WLB Jessie Armstead- Texas
    MLB Micheal Barrow- Miami
    SLB Darrin Smith- Miami
    RCB Herbert James- Goulds
    LCB Ryan McNeil- Fort Peirce
    FS Darryl Williams- Miami
    SS Hurlie Brown- Merritt Island

    ----1989----

    1989 offense:

    QB Craig Erickson- Boynton Beach
    FB Leonard Conley- Tarpon Springs
    WB Wesley Carroll- Ohio
    TE Rob Chudzinski- Ohio
    SE Randal Hill- Miami
    FL Dale Dawkins- Vero Beach
    OT Robert Amatucci- ?*
    OG Rod Holder- ?*
    C Bobby Garcia- ?*
    OG Darren Handy- Miami
    OT Leon Searcy- Washington DC

    1989 Defense:

    E Greg Mark- New Jersey
    DT Cortez Kennedy- Arkansas
    DT Russell Maryland- Illinois
    LE Willis Peguese- Miami
    WLB Maurice Crum- Riverview
    MLB Bernard Clark- Tampa
    SLB Richard Newbill- New Jersey
    RCB Ryan McNeil- Miami
    LCB Kenny Berry- Pahokee
    FS Charles Pharms- Texas
    SS Hurlie Brown- Rockledge

  • Exactly. Texas has talent but I won a bunch of bets when those Florida schools came hear to play Texas schools. Money and coaching wise Texas. Sheer raw talent I will take Florida, specifically south Florida all day

  • Please don't forget that of the 7 titles, 5 of them were won by 2 coaches, or 6 of 9 if you go back to LSU/saban's in 03 and Meyer's first. I can't take anything away from the SEC circle jerks, but shut thaaaaaaaaa fuuuuuuuuuuudge up uga, ole miss, miss st, vandy, tenn, usc, tamu, ark, missouri and uk. I'll even say that to au fans until they get their dick out of the dirt.

    My hatred bama has grown to epic proportions. I "had" a friend who all by himself, with nobody else's mouth but his own, created a disdain in me for bama and the SEC that I didn't think was possible. It makes me wonder what kind a a hole I sounded like in the late 90s when I was running my mouth on the reg. Honestly, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I would pull for uf over bama right now...I think...not sure.

    OK, back on topic. You have to be able to recruit to compete with SEC teams, as said many times. So here is list of teams that "can" and regularly "do" recruit well enough to compete.

    FSU
    USC
    UT
    Clemson
    OU
    OSU
    ND
    --and I'll throw in some other schools that have been previously mentioned--
    UCLA
    Oregon

    However, as we have seen at FSU, that's not always a blue print for success. Without the coaching staff in place to win, you simply won't compete anywhere but on paper. So IMO that cuts the list to;

    FSU
    OU
    OSU
    Clemson
    ND

    Then I believe a 3rd part of the equation comes in that maybe I make a bigger deal out of then most, but honestly believe is a very VERY big deal. Steel sharpens steel. When you play somebody worse than you, they get better or you get worse until things are equal. That's why mid level SEC teams usually compete or beat the higher ranked teams from other conferences. It's difficult if not impossible to reproduce or simulate the focus, effort, and execution that coaches and plays HAVE TO have in order to succeed in the pressure cooker that is SEC football. Light me up if you want, but IMO in the 2012 FSU/uf game, we looked out of shape and like a deer in the head lights vs a battle tested uf. I realized my arrogance of thinking FSU would show up playing great football after a season of IMO very uninspired play, and be able to man up with that uf team, even though we had better talent all around.

    So the schools at the top of the list when I consider how effectively does each school's season prepare them to go against the best SEC team in the title game. (2013)

    OU
    Clemson
    ND

    I think Oklahoma has the best shot of taking down the SEC especially when you consider their fast break hurry up speed of light offense. Clemson's first game is vs UGA, they play USC, and of course FSU. Those are 3 big time games vs our 2. ND has Mich, USC, Stanford, and OU this year. There will be a LOT of hype for those games. So I could see them pulling it off.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by FSUBone 13 months ago

  • FSUKum, it is not a bias....when it is FACT......Sorry but every one of their hall of fame players over the years Wilfork (most likely in), Mike Irvin (STA), Warren Sapp (Apopka), Ray Lewis , Ted Hendricks. Yes they have players from all over the country....but their best ones most of the time were from Florida. In 91 when they had Barrow...their other LB was from Norland and Jessie Armstead was from texas....2/3 of their LB were from Florida.

    FACT....THREE TEAMS FROM FLORIDA HAVE WON NC's.....Three and a fourth USF was in the top five under Leavitt.....no other state has done that...Not Texas (in the modern era of football), Cali or any other state. So stop....Florida High School and talent is the best in the country. And anyone that wants to argue...well go to Dave Campbells magazine....the best ratio of football talent comes from this state.....Out of 37,000 prospects that play football every year in Florida 1 in every 150 players get D1 scholarships....In Texas it is 1 in every 500 and in cali it is 1 in every 1000......These numbers don't like.

    SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND YOURSELF....I AM SAYING F L O R I D A....NOT SOUTH FLORIDA.... F L O R I D A.....Has the best talent. When FSU, Miami and UF started to focus more on going out of the state to recruit...You know what happened to each program....Each fell off....This is a fact...So don't let facts tell you the truth.

    Over the past few years when a talented team from Florida has gone outside the state to play someone other then Cental Last year....they have won. Northwestern went to South Lake Carrol....I would bet they don't ever invite them back.

    This post was edited by ESS2011 13 months ago

  • what offensive stars? Morris?? who was a step below EJ Manuel.. Duke?? who completely disappeared in big games.. im lost

    This post was edited by swizz 13 months ago

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  • I agree, there is far far too much talent leaving the state for my taste. Create a fence around Florida and we will be just fine.

  • FSU "fell off" when they recruited nationally in the 2000's because they were bad at evaluating talent and took fliers on a lot of grade and character risks that never made it into school. This staff hasn't done that yet. In fact, the only character risk type kids seem to have come from south of I-4.

    UF and Miami fell apart because of bad coaching and general dysfunction. Lot of that also came from character issues with kids, and coaches that couldn't control them.

    FSU UF and Miami will always base their recruiting off Florida. Going out of state isn't some sin that kills a program. Bad coaching, bad evaluating and taking character or grade risk kids will do that. Doesn't matter if you take those types from Florida or California.

  • im just as sick and tired as everyone else about SEC this and SEC that......its all i hear about at work and it wont stop until somebody beats them....i dont know which team will break this streak but FSU has no excuses why they cant....we have tradition,top notch facilities,the best recruiting grounds in the country, a passionate fanbase, its just a question do we have the coaching to get it done......no more excuses for jimbo

  • I am talking about future stars. Stacey Coley, Yearby, and probably Sony Michel and Ermon Lane.

  • I only said that $$$ was necessary, not sufficient for competing with the top tier SEC (Bama, Auburn, UGA, UF).

    After the $$$ requirement is met, what makes a program dominant is how well its resources are used, esp., top coaches (developers/recruiters).

    Last, re your quoted statement, FSU does not have enough $$$ to have the opportunity year in and year out to compete with the top tier SEC.

  • FB Najeh Davenport- North Carolina ---No he was from Miami....
    HB Clinton Portis- Mississippi ---Was from Gainesville, Florida.
    WT Leon Searcy- Washington DC---Actually was from Orlando Florida.
    DE-Kevin Patrick was from Lake Worth, Florida.

    This post was edited by ESS2011 13 months ago

  • I know, I know, just saying UM's offensive recruiting has been or looks to be very good at offensive skill positions--though they shoulda had Alex Collins--but not at that level for defense. If they could match with defense, they could enter the national conversation. That's all I'm saying.