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Agree. This past summer I was in favor of leaving the conference, but the ACC has done the right things over the past 6 months. Adding Notre Dame (albeit in a limited capacity) and Louisville were the right decisions, and a scheduling/bowl alliance with the Big 12 would be another positive move.
I'm not advocating for the ACC or against it but I agree with you the ACC has made some good moves in football in the last few months and this "association idea" is an example of the out of the box thinking their critics have said they are not capable of. A bowl alliance would be good too.
Addressing some of the posts:
1.) I believe the network would be interested in an alliance under the right circumstances and would pay the conference more for the rights because intersectional broadcasts would increases the value to advertisers. How much I don't know but I believe it could be substantial just like the 5-game deal with Notre Dame will increase the payout to FSU beginning in 2014.
2.) Let's not get lost in details on an idea that is in preliminary discussion. The real point of this thread isn't how much or when but that the ACC continues to show us it is trying to improve.
3.) Why an alliance could help scheduling... FSU is working hard to improve its out of conference schedule with both neutral site games and with home and away contests with major programs and will announce a home and away with a good opponent soon as well as dates when ND will come to FSU and vice versa which could be as early as 2014.
Someone mentioned that Duke and Virginia have managed to sign major opponents to play out of conference games so why is it so hard for FSU to do the same? I can see why SEC, Big12, Pac12 and BIG teams were eager to schedule Duke and UVa but their interest in adding another difficult opponent like FSU to their schedule is a whole nuther matter. The alliance could help.
4.) I disagree with the poster who said the SOS problem is the ACC portion of the schedule alone. If the ACC doesn't get any better, we can still take responsibility for improving our SOS by scheduling stronger out of conference opponents while we are members of the ACC.
5.) everyone is talking about how the television revenue differential between the conferences is $10 million and FSU can't survive if that's the case. I agree. But FSU can take responsibility for its future and insure itself that it can compete no matter what happens with conference expansion by addressing home scheduling issues and give its fans a reason to buy season tickets and make more booster contributions. Do you know we could generate another $8 million dollars or more in ticket and booster contributions if we sold out our games like we came close to in the 1990s.
Here's how we control our own destiny:
If you look at the other conferences, they only have about three really attractive home games, some years four. FSU needs to have three or four attractive teams on our home schedule to get the fans who aren't buying tickets to buy. We need to add one more attractive OOC opponent at home in the odd years to give our home schedule at least three really good anchor games in even and odd years (Florida, Clemson NC State in even and Miami, Louisville, and that strong out of conferene addition in odd years). We believe we'll have a fourth attractive team in that schedule each year too with ND in 2014 or 2015 and possibly an ACC crossover with Va Tech or Ga Tech some years. If the other ACC members step up to give us a fifth attractive home game, that's a bonus.
6.) Get back to our roots... If you think back to when FSU joined the ACC, the one advantage was it gave us the ability to play strong national teams like Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, LSU, Nebraska, Miami as our out of conference opponents. That was fun for our fans, was attractive to recruits, and differentiated us from our SEC rivals. For reasons not totally under our control, we've strayed from that over the years. I'm really happy to report that we're heading back in that direction with a commitment to adding a stronger OOC opponent, playing neutral site games, and ND every few years.
7.) FSU's eyes are wide open to the listening the SEC, B1G or Big 12 but as long as we are a member of the ACC, it serves our interests to encourage anything that improves the ACC.
Jerry Kutz is Sr. VP of Seminole Boosters and was co-founder and columnist of the Osceola. Contact firstname.lastname@example.org or 850-644-4612.
meh the BIG12. It is the SEC or ACC. Things will work itself out one way or another within time and FSU will be just fine.
GO NOLES! / SCALP EM!
I want out! If we're in a better conference we don't have to worry about all these out of the box ideas. Seems like we are having to work harder because the ACC is so poorly run. Sure they are trying to get better but they have so mismanaged the tv contracts with Raycom being in the mix that I question whether they can really get it right. If they can get ND locked in full time then I'll change my tune.
I'm anxious to see the Notre Dame dates on paper.
We're going to be playing them twice as more often than UF plays Alabama or Auburn.
I'm supportive of everything in this post.
Jerry, speaking of an opponent to be announced, there had been some rumblings that we'd be playing a home-and-home with Southern Miss, with Southern Miss' "home" game to be played in New Orleans. Is there anything to that rumor? New Orleans would be a fun trip.
Seeing as how the Pkace most often mentioned for FSU to land is the Big 12 and the Big 12 is involved in this out if the box thinking it doesn't seem like leaving the ACC clears that up.
If the Big 12 adds FSU they don't need this deal either. Fairly simple concept.
If the ACC lands ND full time this is moot too, but as of now neither is happening.
It seems the Big 12 is in a more instable spot than the ACC. If the PAC 12 expand it will be at the expense of the major players in the Big 12. If the goal is four 16 team conferences I believe the ACC survives and the Big 12 doesn't.
If we strike a scheduling deal with the Big 12, what's the appeal of us moving to the Big 12? There wouldn't be much of a difference in the quality of football opponents, as we'd be playing Florida, Clemson, Miami, Louisville, and a premier Big 12 team every season, plus Notre Dame once every three seasons. Switching wouldn't make sense geographically, academically, or for olympic sports, either.
"everyone is talking about how the television revenue differential between the conferences is $10 million and FSU can't survive if that's the case. I agree."
It's all about the financials. The ACC can talk all they will, but we are stuck in the ACC TV deal for 15 years. Window dressing will not fix this.
I agree that FSU can improve its SOS by scheduling strong OOC opponents. I'm not arguing against that. However, I feel like FSU can do this outside of a scheduling alliance. I understand that it may be difficult to get certain teams to schedule FSU because they don't need a good OOC schedule (due to their conference SOS). However, there are numerous teams who don't have traditional rivals OOC, and they usually schedule at least one strong OOC opponent.
Alabama - has or will play Michigan, VT, FSU, Mich St, GT OOC
Auburn - Clemson, Kansas St. OOC
Arkansas - has Michigan on future schedules
LSU - has played Oregon, and has OU on future schedules
Tenn - Oregon, OU, Nebraska, USC
Ohio State - has OU, Oregon, and UT on future schedules
Michigan - ND, Arkansas
Mich St - Alabama, Oregon, Miami on future schedules
Nebraska - Miami, Tenn, OU on future schedules
Tex A&M - USC, Oregon
USC - A&M, Tenn
I list these to show that these type teams are willing to schedule tough teams OOC. Maybe there is information I don't have, but I think FSU could/should be able to do this outside of a scheduling alliance.
And, as was my point in my original post, I think it would be better for FSU to do this *outside* of a scheduling alliance with the Big12. The scheduling alliance would introduce the rest of the ACC to games that, in my opinion, they are very likely to lose, as is evidenced by the ACC's record in OOC match-ups.
Let FSU increase our SOS with some powerful OOC match-ups, and let the rest of the ACC schedule highly winnable games. The ACC schedules more BCS teams OOC than any other conference, and FSU's SOS suffers due to the ACC's poor record in those games.
I made the point the other day that when someone pointed out that Oregon and UVa agreed to a home and home that in that case FSU is Oregon and equivalent of what they did would be for FSU to schedule a home and home with Washington or Utah. That isn't going to fire up the fanbase.
Won't FSU play ND twice every 10 years and FSU will play Auburn/Alabama twice every 12 years?
Good dialogue. Thanks.
Your list includes "has or will play" which is fine.
With that logic FSU's OOC would include Florida, Oklahoma, Alabama, OK State, ND and that would look good too but we all know its a touch misleading when you look at future schedules or home games.
What I am concerned about is future schedules and particularly home games. I know there are good teams scheduling good teams and my understanding is we are about to announce a good OOC opponent to go with UF, and dates for ND. Plus we have the OK State in Texas which helps SOS but doesn't help home game schedule.
As for the rest of the conference, I get your point and its an interesting one. ACC losses against other conferences does not help FSU. Agreed. I haven't researched what the ACC record in recent years is team by team against Big 12 teams. Do you know?
If the ACC is going to gain respect it needs to play these games and win like they did in the bowl games this year by winning 4 of 6...
jerry,i hope fsu is" wide open" to listening to the sec,big 10 and big 12.our president's public stance is to the contrary.to me this is such an important issue that the board of trustees should be involved in a detailed financial anaysis.
I agree about FSU's OOC schedule. I think we've done pretty well in the past (WVU bailout excluded). And that's why I have trouble seeing the actual advantage this alliance would bring FSU, other than more revenue, of course.
I also agree that ACC has to win these games to get respect. But, it needs to be a level field. I'm all for FSU and Clemson going OOC and picking the strongest each conference has to offer.
But, just as Virginia, Duke, and Wake Forest aren't the top of the ACC, they don't need to be scheduling the strongest of the other conferences as they've done recently (USC, Bama, and Stanford, respectively)
In the last 4 years, the ACC is 3-10 against the Big12, btw.
I realize that might change, and I hope that if this happens we get some favorable match-ups.
Who knows, maybe the ACC can force some more even OOC match-ups through this scheduling alliance, letting our lower level teams have a chance to beat Iowa State, Kansas, Baylor, or TT.
Just as an exercise, what would be your ideal match-ups?
FSU v UT
Clemson v OU
VT v WVU
UofL v K.St
UNC v OSU
Miami v TT
NCSt v Baylor
GT v ISU
UVa v Kansas
Pitt v TCU
The President and Florida State, me included, should take a publicly pro ACC stance even if his eyes are wide open. And yes a full financial analysis is important, as well as a comprehensive analysis that extends beyond the obvious financial analysis.
The Board of Trustees is engaged as well.
Whatever conference we are in, we must make the best of it. I am an action guy and its against my nature to take a fatalistic approach, the damsel in distress waiting until the knight in shining armor comes to rescue her.
I want to control my destiny.
Well said Ben and I agree but we are getting way ahead of ourselves here. Its just an idea but I do like your matchups.
BTW... I'm sure you realize this: The ACC is 3-10 against the Big 12. Subtract FSU's two losses to Oklahoma and the rest of the ACC is 3-8 which isn't a total mismatch.
And you are right, had WV not bailed on us we've done pretty well (this year excluded) but we can do better and we will do better. And I'm telling you, if we put 3 to 4 solid opponents in Doak then our sales team will sell Doak out and we won't have to worry about the future. OUr fans will respond.
This is the best post I have heard on expansion
Support the ACC but look at others and do your homework. I am happy to hear it is ongoing.
Every three years
So, 4 times in a 12 year period
I think you meant Florida will have one home and home or play only 2 games vs Bama/Auburn every 12 years?
Playoffs will go a long way into alleviating the current conference panic. I'm just dissapointed that they signed a "4-team" deal for so long into the future... I don't feel like this was enough teams to significantly alleviate the conference pressure. But the wave-of-change has began, no doubt...
All I can say is, I hope the greed/taste for money kicks in once they realize that a lot more people are going to watch those 2-games... vs... only the MNC game and useless bowls. They could probably compete with the NFL on revenue, if they pulled their HEADS out of their asses.
4-teams is nice... it will let them get a taste of the money.
8-teams is better...
16-teams is even better... it will ensure that all relevant contenders are fairly represented.
You're right. Thanks for catching that.
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