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The "We suck despite 12 wins" crowd...

  • No, I do get your point and agree with you for the most part. That part was just kind of a weak argument.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by RyRog 15 months ago

  • This whole "I like FSU better than you do" thing needs to stop. We all are dedicated fans (or we wouldn't be here) with different POVs. We all agree on a whole lot more than we're willing to admit.

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    "I never knew I had a foot until I noticed it was on your neck"

  • I agree with that. However, the constant back-biting on our coaches has to stop as well. Until they fail to produce at an elite level (which they currently are, as elite is just under MNC level), they deserve our support. Question away, but back biting and bitching helps no one.

    "It's not the SEC conference vs. the ACC conference," "It's Florida State vs. Auburn." --Lamarcus Joyner

  • Seems to me Warchant is here now. I looked up your posts before I posted. Come on man, don't back pedal now that most of us are happy with the season. Anyhow, not here to bicker, but don't make contradictory posts. As far as Charlie Strong goes, he went 7-6 two years in a row, then Bridgewater gets a year under his belt and they have a good year, but still lose to Syracuse and UConn, yet you'd take him over Jimbo. Ok.

  • Agree on back biting of players. however, the coaches are getting paid very well and are grown ups. futhermore, if you are referring to making observations about perceived issues that need to be corrected within the program those are about the program.

    however, for example, I have not seen one post accusing any coach of being in a whorehouse or closing down bars every night.

    there was/is a coach going through a personal family issue right now. not related to the the above examples. I have not seen one word about it on this site. nor should there have been anything about that issue on this site. how any personal issue may affect a coach is between the coach and his superiors. Period.

    Saying we may need to changes to the process isn't personal it's about the program.

  • You're correct, but in reality it's his program. He is paid to run it and produce victories. What you're complaining about is that he is not producing enough victories with the talent he is recruiting. Personal things have been posted here about players, many times.

  • You went back and looked at my posts!? Stalk much? Listen, I'm not here to bicker either. I said I prefer Strong over Jimbo. I never said you had to agree with me.

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    "I never knew I had a foot until I noticed it was on your neck"

  • Cuth, I know you're a huge 'Nole fan and I hope that you know that I'm one too. I just need to ask a couple of questions: 1) as a fan is it a requirement to like every coach on your favorite team? and; 2) do you really think it's unfair to criticize coaches? Players, maybe, but coaches?

    I will ALWAYS support Florida State. I have nothing but great things to say about the players (except I did call out KB this year--he absolutely mystifies me!). But if I don't love Jimbo is that such a terrible thing? Is that what sets me and the rest of the so called "We suck despite 12 wins" crowd apart from you? If so, that's a small, small thing.

    The OP set a bad tone for this entire thread. The title was very condescending. I do not think FSU sucked this year. I think they underachieved. I have my gripes, but overall I'm happy with the results.

    Basically, I'm just sick of talking about this. Like I said earlier it all comes down to folks sticking out their tongues and saying, "I like FSU more than you do." That's silly. We all love this program. Maybe a little too much.

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    "I never knew I had a foot until I noticed it was on your neck"

  • good post!

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  • Maybe they have been posted. They should not have been posted. What a player posts on twitter may be in a different category. I don't know.

  • I'm probably overreacting to the year long criticisms. Nothing wrong with preferring Strong, but I can't help but think we tend to undervalue our own and you probably wouldn't like Strong here, either, if he wasn't winning MNCs.

    "It's not the SEC conference vs. the ACC conference," "It's Florida State vs. Auburn." --Lamarcus Joyner

  • I think I could have cleared up a lot of misunderstanding as least in regarding at least myself if I had initally responded to this post as follows:

    Here is the one quesiton i ask myself:

    Can Jimbo get this program where it needs to go.

    My Answers:

    2010: yes
    2011-somewhere between more likely than not and probably
    2012: I don't know.

    I have far less confidence in Jimbo getting us to where we need to be than i did when i was walking out of the peach Bowl in 2010.

    That is because, at least for me, my confidence trend line is going in the wrong direction. That leaves me unsettled about the state of the program.

    I am also looking at the program in a 6 year snapshot. A lot of you are looking at it in a one year snapshot. There is nothing wrong with looking at things through a one year snapshot. however, there is also nothing wrong with looking at the program through a 6 year snapshot.

    my snap shot is -3 years and +3 years. Why 6 years? Because if Jimbo can't get us where we need to be in 6 years is is very doubtful he will ever get us there.

    FWIW, if he can't get us where we need to be in 6 years one way or the other i doubt he will be here for year 7.

    A few highlights why I have less confidence than i did at the end of 2011:

    1. a new DC. Unavoidable. however, i would not be unsettled if ellis Johnson had been hired. However, as i have said, Auburn, at 850k, is overpaying for a 61 year old dc that is a mediocre recruiter.

    I personally would have liked to have seen Manny diaz. Jimbo wanted to go in another direction. It's his team so he should go in whatever direction he wants to regarding his DC.

    Pruitt is an unknown as a dc which is by nature unsettling. however, I am slightly positive about pruitt because if Jimbo made a bad dc hire it will cost Jimbo his job. Jimbo knows that so I am confident he thinks Pruitt will be a good dc.

    2. Jimbo as OC and HC. it is clear that after year three Jimbo is not effective both as hc and oc. I know, stating the obvious. He may be in the future by probably not in years 4 or 5. Jimbo's recent statements regarding the oc issue and some things I have heard and the BOT's position make me slightly optimistic on this issue.

    however, as i can attest to from personal experience, knowing you should give up control of something that you are good at and actually giving up control are not the same things.

    3. The state of the ol. Watson may leave. The answer should be, i wish him well and then "next up."

    However, we may lose a good ol, no one who is acc honorable mention is great.

    so we need to potentially replace only one good ol for next year. At most porgrams of fSU's stature that would be cause for celebtration. 4 out of 5 ol starters coming back. yeah baby yeah.

    however, at FSu we lack quality depth so we are all crossing our fingers that tunsil (for whom we are generally thought to be 2nd or 3rd) commits here. Golson and Kirkland (if he comes) may end up being great ones but not as true freshmen.

    After year 6 of trickett, the ol situation should be better here.

    We have had one decent ol in 6 years (2010). On a personal level i am stunned Trickett still has a job at FSU. Jimbo has shown he will part ways (gran, hudson) with coaches whom he thinks are not getitng it done.

    My snapshot for ol is a 9 year snapshot. -6 +3. The ol is in a fairly constant state of flux year after year. Now we all hope that cloth or someone else can greatly exceed most of our expectations and play at least at the level Watson played this year. Whether Watson comes back makes a difference for next year but does not change the long term analysis: That our success should not be so dependant on one good ol coming back given the fact trickett has had 6 years to install his vision of an ol.

    Tricket is the highest paid ol coach in the country and quite frankly, we are not getting a good return on that investment.

    being deficient on either side of the trenches can by itself keep us from where we need to be.

    i am still unsettled regarding the ol because I do not see the situation changing on a consistent basis.

    We also need much more year in and out consistency in our ol recruiting.

    Just look to the last 2 classes for examples.

    Looking at this thorugh a 6 year window, how did i approach the Orange bowl:

    1. would we actually show up: the answer was yes. That was not a given considering the opponent.

    2. Would we roll up a team in the first half that did not belong on the field:

    looking just at the score, the answer was no. so taking the game in isolation, the answer was no. however, looking at overall play, putting them away in the 4th, the answer is kind of. NIU is as good as Gt. The fact is we waxed them in the 4th (and could have put up 2 more td's).

    So overall did we see the program move forward in the orange bowl. a little. That is better than moving backward like uf did in the sugar bowl.

    As to losses, i don't even look at 2010. 2 inexplicable losses,a blowout and losing to an equal team in vt. it's year one, the team has to learn to be consistent. it showed great progress from the start of the year to the peach bowl victory.

    2011: losing to an equal team at home in OU: should not happen but was still progress from 2010.

    clemson: witht he loss to ou the week before (and the mnc chance going away) and the injuries. This loss, while annoying, was understandable. The team did not show up for about 1 1/2 quarters which was also understandable early in year two of the process.

    Wake after an open week was a step backward in the process.

    UVA was a big step backward in the process. losing to a poor team at home. Should not have happened. The defense not finshing the game. a step back wards. Jimbo looking like Willem Defoe in platoon during the last drive-a big step backwards. That made it appear that , in game 11 of of year 2, Jimbo was not ready to be hc.

    2012: the clemson game showed growth for this team. They stonewalled a very good team when it mattered most.

    Unfortunately, the only growth we saw after that game was (1) coming back against vt -narrowly averting a disaster of our own creation. 2. making a play to seal the gt game.

    The last 2 were baby steps or even smaller steps.

    Seeing very little improvement from late septemeber onward for 2012 is disconcerting.

    As to coaches leaving, it's the nature of the beast. Stoops and eliot left for big promotions, Gran and hudson have been addressed and auburn wanted to pay Craig double his value. He is not worth close to what auburn is paying him. so we should wish him well and go get someone else.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by TNOLE27 15 months ago

  • SOO much has to do with the play calling, I can't even tell you. If/when Jimbo gives up playcalling and if/when the play calling improves, I'll be a much bigger Jimbo fan. Even if we're not winning MNCs. I never liked him as an OC; it's hard for me to see where his job as OC ends and his job as HC begins.

    This post was edited by napoleon 15 months ago

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  • Very thoughtful post TNOLE.

    This post was edited by napoleon 15 months ago

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  • What is wrong with the playcalling? I don't have a problem with 95% of them. If EJ is consistently accurate this year, I don't think anyone has a problem with the vast majority of the plays.

    "It's not the SEC conference vs. the ACC conference," "It's Florida State vs. Auburn." --Lamarcus Joyner

  • For starters, he should've played to EJ's strengths: more hurry up offense so EJ doesn't overthink, more option plays (let EJ use his legs!), etc. Second, I would have like to see a whole lot more "I" formation. Get Wilder and Pryor more involved. Run that ball up the middle!Overall, attack the defense. His offensive approach is too darn timid imo.

    This post was edited by napoleon 15 months ago

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  • I share in some of your concerns about Jimbo, but the "let EJ run!" mantra doesn't work here. There is a reason why Ej wasn't running all of the time, and it wasn't because Jimbo is so stupid he doesn't know how to utilize EJ's athleticism.

    Remember, there were plenty (maybe too many) planned QB draws when CP7 was QB. Same with D Richardson for the few games we had him.

  • Running all the time? -- EJ hardly ran at all. What reasons are you speaking of? Risks of injury? Injuries are a part of the game. If those are Jimbo's reason for not running EJ than he's even more timid than I thought.

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  • Unless Trickett is the starter, you will see FSU's QB run much more than EJ did this year. Do you remember how often CP7 ran?

  • Yes, but I'm trying to understand what you're getting at. Why do think EJ didn't run much this year?

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  • I have no inside info, but a lot of posters who DO have inside info (on this site and others) have been consistently saying that EJ did not want to run. He was very resistant to it, so Jimbo didn't call running plays that often.

    EJ got pretty banged up against Oklahoma and didn't want a repeat of that.

  • Well, I know EJ considered himself a "pocket passer," but pocket passers run too. Regardless, who's running the show here, the HC or the QB? If the scenario you're painting is even remotely true if I'm Jimbo EJ is running the ball whether he likes it or not.

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  • Again, I don't think this will be a problem going forward, but Jimbo probably made the right decision to not run EJ more often if both he and EJ had injury concerns.

    It doesn't bother me if Jimbo took EJ's concerns into consideration. It's not the same as if Wilder said he didn't want to run. If EJ only wanted to have a couple of designed runs a game because of legitimate injury concerns, then it speaks well of Jimbo that he accomodated those concerns.

    We'll find out next year I suppose.

  • Yeah, well, I won't question EJ's heart or desire to win. Hopefully, next year with Winston or Coker we'll see more designed runs.

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