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Nick Saban, Bobby Bowden, Terry Bowden, and Dave Hart disagree.
As do several NFL GMs who have voiced how NFL ready Jimbo QBs are.
Who came up with this nonsense that Jimbo wasn't an elite OC or QB coach?
Sure, when we play Duke, Wake and Murray State. But against teams with a solid defense we're shut down. Against teams with a decent defense we struggle..
Who said he WAS an elite OC and QB coach? Maybe it's the people who marvel over the fine QB JaMarcus Russell has become. Oh, he's already out of the league.
The Future is Now.
Nick Saban, Bobby Bowden, Terry Bowden, and Dave Hart have all hired Jimbo as an OC. He was also retained by Les Miles.
Jimbo's QBs have been praised.
The idea that Jimbo hasn't done an "adequate job" as a QB coach or OC is patently ridiculous.
Not that I agree, but I have several LSU fans who weren't too upset when Jimbo left for FSU. I take that info with a grain of salt because, as we all know, fans aren't always the most rational or accurate wight football analysis.
That said, even if Jimbo was a top tier QB coach and OC, I believe it is too tall of an order to ask him to be that plus a HC for a top tier CFB program. You can't commit the amount of time required to be successful as both a CEO and day-to-day operations manager.
That's a very, very fair discussion to have. Allocating duties/learning to manage people is a very important part of the learning process of being an HC. It's a good question as to whether EJ not reaching another level is because of time management issues.
But to say he's never been good/elite as an OC/QB coach is ridiculous.
That's the case with most teams. Even the elite offenses struggle against the better defenses. However, we seem to look helpless at times. The last two times we played UF our offense looked like a HS level team.
Each has made "questionable" hires as well, so not sure what that proves.
The level of QB talent that one should be able to get at LSU, Auburn, and FSU shouldn't require a QB guru to transform them into an NFL level back up for 2 or 3 years.
Adequate wasn't used initially, elite was. Who thinks he is elite?
I hate Jimbos offense because all he cares about is scheme. Rashad Green should touch the ball 10-15 times a game, Wilder jr should never touch it less than 10 times, Lonnie Pryor not touching the ball 3x as much as he did over his career is a shame, EJ not running this whole year was unacceptable, when he ran that touchdown in against NIU I was almost more angry than happy. I'd rather have studs make a mistake than us losing because someone ran a route a yard and a half too long or some other BS.
Kenny Powers: "A true champion will do whatever it takes to rise above. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies."
Ahhh, but the piece of information missing from all this was the fact that EJ didn't want to run anymore, and his Father helped drive that point home.
The proof was in the pudding the way EJ ran the ball this year. He ran like he was protecting his asset (himself).
In most cases, he would have been benched due to this, but the fact that he was a senior, and the fact that we didn't have a backup that was ready yet was the reason he wasn't.
Either way, not a problem we have to worry about moving forward. Johnny Manziel won a Heisman running all over the place, and certainly didn't destroy his playing career here, and one of Coker or Winston will be just fine doing the same. Hell, Russell Wilson is doing it on TV right now.
I heard you posted this exact post on tos. Really?
Indeed. It's on TC.
napoleon, that is just stupid. Seriously, you want to debate Jimbo as a QB coach? He is a top 5 QB coach in college football. There is zero debate there.
EJ came to FSU RAW. Anyone doubting that, go back and watch the hitch in his throw, and complete lack of accuracy at the HS All Star Game. Ponder came to FSU as a run first QB in a wing T offense in Texas.
Both kids left polished, and both kids will be drafted. On top of that, Fisher coached Craig, Booty, Davey, Mauck, Flynn.
Seriously, outside of Tedford, Spurrier, Cutcliffe, and perhaps Sarkisian, who has tutored more QBs at the college level to the same level as Jimbo Fisher.
I *HATE* agenda driven posts napoleon. You don't like Fisher. Fine. But stop dimishing his accomplishments to make a point. I agree with you he is far from elite as an OC, and not excellent either. I'd put him in the good category. But as a QB coach, there are maybe 3 other guys in CFB I would take over Jimbo Fisher. We always know as long as Fisher is here, we are NEVER going through a period like we did from Rix-Weatherford, a solid 8 years of QB nightmares where they all regressed to the point where a forward pass was painful to watch.
This post was edited by Bowden4prez 18 months ago
Jeff was fired by TK and Hart. bobby found about him getting the ax literally within an hour of the press conference and 6 weeks after Jeffy was told he was getting the ax. Jeffy was given the $537,000 buyoff, his contract was up, so he would keep his mouth shut and bobby would not pick a fight he could not win. Essentially, it was pre firing announcement hush money.
bobby had nothing , NOTHING to do with the change. he also had nothing to do with Jimbo being here. Nothing. all that talk by Terry was just to put a good face on the situation. Pretending the emperor had clothes. it appears to have worked on you. It was all TK. All TK , again except for firing Jeff, that was both TK and Hart that broke the news to Jeffy.
Donations were projected to be down by 30% prior tot he announcement.
Since we all have opinions, I thought I would throw out some objective data from
the Fremeau Efficiency Index (FEI).
The following is a quote re: their index:
"The Fremeau Efficiency Index (FEI) considers each of the nearly 20,000 possessions every season in major college football. All drives are filtered to eliminate first-half clock-kills and end-of-game garbage drives and scores. A scoring rate analysis of the remaining possessions then determines the baseline possession efficiency expectations against which each team is measured. A team is rewarded for playing well against good teams, win or lose, and is punished more severely for playing poorly against bad teams than it is rewarded for playing well against bad teams."
Our overall rank before bowl games was 16. Our offensive efficiency was 52. Our Def Effic. was 14.. Our special teams effic. was 18.
Statistically that bears out what many are saying.
To bring those offensive stats to life then look at our season.
Since going into a game, 2 teams are not equal in talent, depth etc., let's ask the simple question:
Did our offense do as good or better against the opposing defense as you would expect?
Throw out the two cupcakes.
We beat WF 52-0 One of our best "O" games of the season.
Clemson 49-37. Here our D let us down a little and the "O" rescued us. Good O game.
USF 30-17. Our first hiccup. Disjointed. Nevada, Ball State, Temple, Syracuse and Miami all scored more points.
"O" did not play up to potential.
NCST lost 17-16 Huge egg layed by "O" against a mediocre defense. Tennessee, Miami, Maryland, UNC,Virginia,
Clemson and Vandy all scored more points against NCSt.
BC 51-7 Excellent "O" game over 600 yards and more importantly 51 points.
UM 33-20 Mediocre "O" game. Had 16 points going into 4th qtr. KSU, ND, GT, NCSt, Virginia and Duke all scored more.
Duke 48-7 Good "O" game. Only Stanford, Clemson and Miami scored more, but not significantly more. Cincy scored the same.
VT 28-22 Poor "O" game. The game winning drive was sweet. Pitt, UNC, Clemson and Miami all scored more on VT.
Maryland 41-14 FAir "O" game. Another slow 2nd half. Only Clemson and Miami scored more.
UF 37-26 Underachieving "O" and "D". Very disappointing, but at least it was a very good defense we were facing. I put
this one on the D as much as the O.
GT 21-15 Again with the 2nd half NO points this time like NCSt. Miami, MIDDLE TENNESSEE, Clemson, BYU, UNC and Georgia
all scored more against them.
I count USF, NCSt, VT and GT as severely underachieving "O" when taking into account talent.
I count UF and MIami as at least moderately underachieving.
That is 6 underachieving offensive performances, 7 if you consider the bowl game.
Given our depth and talent differential, that is unacceptable IMO>
p.s. I know that not every game is going to be great offensively, but to have 6 ro 7 underachieving
games is beyond ridiculous.
The FEI ranking our offensive efficiency 52 is about right. It's certainly fact based/objective.
This post was edited by Tom81 18 months ago
I'm sorry if you misunderstood my intent. My wording was bad.
My point was that people in power forced the issue. You are right that
TK and Hart did the deed. They didn't do it in a vacuum. They knew the
temperature of the fans and the ones that feed the financial engine.
I know that Bobby didn't have anything to do with it. He would have fallen on his
sword for his son.
Actually, if you look at points on the board as the only indicator for an oc there is an argument that Jimbo's performance as oc since he has been hc hasn't been all that good given the competition.
so the patently absurd allegation regarding people saying Jimbo is very avg is an absurd assertion in and of itself. As to qb praise, the word most often used to describe EJ is inconsistent. How is the word inconsistent praise?
As to bobby, Please stop. Bobby (and really Hart) never hired Jimbo. Tk hired him.
Yet Bama, LSU and possibly ND will win MNC's with similar to worse offenses in the last few years.
Kind of embarrassing for 247.
Tom, those same rankings gave FSU a top 5 offense in CFB in 2009. You argued for those rankings in this post. Are you going to argue against them in 2009? Because I am sorry, if you thought the 2009 offense was ranked in the top 5 offenses in the country, you are smoking crack.
At the same time, if you felt FSU's offenses was at 52 this year, you are also smoking crack.
I don't like FEI ratings and F+/- rankings because they aim to regulate schools like Tulsa who play nobody and rack up 600 yards of total offense, which is good, but it does an adequete to power job of BCS conferences. For instance, our conference was raked over the coals for our lousy season, however, we go out and go 5-2 in bowl games, and it's too late to adjust. Bottom line, there is NO WAY to come up with pure equal playing field rankings of offenses. Too many variables.
BTW, Tom, while on that subject, if we followed your ranking system for offenses, and assume that the top 5 offense of Ponder's in 09 was accurate, is it safe to say that Jimbo deserves the benefit of the doubt of seeing if the offense can improve with a different QB before forcing his hand with boosters and influencers? Because he has had a top 5 offense by your own standard once before with a different QB.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Bowden4prez 18 months ago
The offense should have been simplified given his issue with presnap reads or he should have been benched. I trickett is ready for next year he was ready this year.
Nothing against the Manuels, i have heard nothing but great things about them, but some player's dad should not have a say in our offense. unless he is a coach on the team. I have a hard time believing EJ would consciously decide not to run despite the fact Jimbo was telling him to run more. If that is true he should have been put on the deep bench. Doing that for a game would have gotten his attention.
Ej was not running like he should have been running. I agree with that fact.
Jimbo did not show the ability to tailor the offense to his starting qb despite the fact EJ did not run enough
We would have won 10 games with Trickett or Coker given this schedule.
This post was edited by TNOLE27 18 months ago
It is 100% true, and I have a source that would absolutely know this to be true. EJ / Father did not want him running this year. After the broken leg in the bowl game, that was it. This was his draft money year, and they wanted him prepped as a pocket passer.
And before you say he should be burried on the bench, remember what this staff had. They had a team they believed would compete for a national title. They had a veteran QB they had been prepping for this moment. They had an experienced, talented defense. Who would have taken all the heat for benching EJ and playing Trickett? You think Jimbo is going to tell the press what EJ and his family wanted? You have to be kidding me. That would CRUSH recruiting. No, instead Jimbo removed much of the zone read, and tried to get EJ to that level, but clearly, he is missing "it". And if you still don't trust this, watch his tape and the way he ran this year. Tentative. He was decisive up until this season. That last injury to his leg was the final straw.
And your Trickett or Coker comment? Wrong. Trickett can't read a zone defense, as the Wake game points out. The kid just isn't there yet, and is zero threat to run the zone read. Coker? He was a year away. It would have been the Ponder offense the first year Jimbo inserted him as a starter. And that OL was more seasoned than this one.
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