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Are you saying the Big 12 doesn't bring the same presence in basketball or baseball?
I think national perception of ACC basketball is much better than the Big 12 and the same with baseball considering UNC and UM are strong programs. In the Big 12 it's Texas in all the major sports, kind of top heavy with little parity.
Hmmm, I think I will give you the ACC is thought of as a better basketball conference, but Kansas is a pretty big factor in Big 12 basketball. Factor in Texas, Oklahoma St, Oklahoma as teams that have put together Final Four runs in recent years and the fact that Kansas State, Missouri, Texas A&M and Baylor have all spent time in the top 10 recently I just don't think you are giving the Big 12 enough credit.
As far as baseball goes, Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, and Baylor have all been to the CWS in the last five years and Oklahoma State has 19 CWS appearances. Until the ACC wins a CWS title in the modern day it won't be considered a better league overall than the SEC, Big 12 or PAC 12. There are seasons where it has been considered the best in the country, but not winning the title in those years hurts.
I don't see anyway FSU goes to the Big 12. Seems like it would be a huge burden on the olympic sports with travel, but I don't think many objective observers would give the edge to the ACC in any category except basketball and there can be a case made that over the last 5-7 years the Big 12 has been better in that too.
Seems like you are splitting hairs. They lost Texas A&M so their goes their wealthiest school and national track power. UT was rather pedestrian this year in football and OU will take a solid step back as well. OSU no longer has the best receiver to play there or their 26 year old QB. No school in Kansas can be counted on to compete in anything other that basketball.
I know from reading the boards you follow baseball much closer than I do but if we are being objective, college baseball isn't in the same conversation as football or even basketball when talking national perception. Average sports fans couldn't tell you who won 1 of the last 5 CWS. I'll take the ACC for football and basketball and the Big 12 can have baseball.
Lose ATM gain TCU. Not an even trade but does help ease the loss of a good baseball program with an up and comer.
WARNING: Text above may cause dizziness, nausea, cognitive decline, and/or a burning sensation. Read at your own risk.
I am not splitting hairs, you talked about the "other 2 big sports where the Big 12 doesn't bring the same presence," and I presented an argument that showed they do bring the same presence.
Now you are countering by saying baseball doesn't matter and bringing football into the discussion.
Not sure you are going to find many people, even those who follow the ACC, that would argue football is better in the ACC than the Big 12 (or whatever it will be called.)
The bottom line is that adding FSU and Clemson to the Big 12 would further elevate the Big 12 TV profile and increase FSU revenues far above anything they will ever see in the ACC.
The Big 12 would be split into 2 divisions so FSU would not be seeing UT and OU in the same year unless FSU wanted it that way, or they met in the league championship game.
The ACC did not have a single football team in the AP top 20 at the end of 2012. The new Big 12 configuration had 6 in the top 20 and UT was not one of them. That reality has everything to do with the huge amount of talent in Texas vs the ACC footprint. In the Big 12, FSU would be able to mine Texas talent in addition to Florida. It would have to be a better recruiting situation for FSU.
Everything but Tier 3 revenues are shared in the Big 12 and this is the case in almost all conferences.
My only point in making these points is that I would love UT to replace A&M with FSU as a rivalry game because i would be conflicted!! It would be a win win for all concerned.
This post was edited by InsightTexas 2 years ago
Trading ATM for TCU was an upgrade in every way, and I would take WVU over Missouri in a heartbeat. TCU has been to 2 BCS games in the last 3 years which is more than ATM has in its history. Missouri has never been to a BCS game, WVU has been to 3 since 2006.
It is kind of relative though. If Missouri was in the Big East they probably would have gone to a BCS game. If aTm was in the Mountain West they may have run through the conference undefeated and been in a BCS game too.
Doesn't change the fact that the Big 12 is still fractured and has inherent problems that have cost it a third of its membership. There's a reason why no other conference operates like the Big 12.
The ACC is superior academically, better for FSU geographically and culturally, and if the Big 12 thinks it can simply buy us, well, good luck with all that.
A&M has been a font of mediocrity since 1998, and just got its first bowl win in forever over a 6-6 Northwestern team. TCU played undefeated Boise to the wire in the 2009 Fiesta and went undefeated and beat the Big 10 Champ Wisconsin in 2010 in the Rose Bowl. WVU dominated a good OU team in 2008 and just blew out the ACC champ who beat FSU in 2011.
The SEC wanted A&M and Missouri for TV footprints and easy wins. TCU and WVU are clearly upgrades in football and have a chance to get better by recruiting from a better conference.
There is no way to argue with logic like that!!! LOL
CU was no loss at all - a very bad program going nowhere
NU lost 10 out of 11 to UT in football & decided they could dominate the Big 10 - Great Plan! lol
MU has always been mediocre - Absolutely no loss at all - Left to play in the SEC East??
ATM - Irrelevant in the BIG 12 but they get to play Florida, Bama, Auburn, LSU & Ark in 2012! lol
CU, MU & NU all severed their recruiting pipelines in Texas. ATM is going to try its spread offense / no defense model in the SEC west. Great thinking!!
And you did nothing to refute my argument.
The Big 12 has made itself toxic to anyone that isn't in the Big East or non-AQ. So, if going to 12 makes sense, you can pick from Louisville, BYU...umm...Rutgers? Cincinnati I guess?
Decision makers have taken a good look at the conference, seen it nearly fall apart twice and have plenty of evidence that it is unstable.
Damn, Candy. If you don't like my opinion why do you keep replying to me? Go act like a hard ass to someone that cares.
Cmon you don't really believe that do you?
Let's drop conference "strength" for a minute and talk logistics.
Fanbase size, viewership, and wealth ATM is a no-brainer over TCU.
I'll give you WVU slightly over Missouri though but its about even. WVU has a rabid fanbase but their footprint in sticksville WV sucks.
Again, thanks for contributing zero. Thread is over 2 pages you failed maybe you should go try to play cop somewhere else.
Candy, all I was saying was to keep the discussion in the other 2 threads. If you're too dumb to figure out how to do that then that's really your problem and not mine. It's amusing that you're trying to insult me by calling me "cop" () yet you're acting in the very same manner. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
That's funny...you are the one trying to tell people who are "guests" how to post here.
Apparently, everyone in the 2 page thread is too dumb to figure it out as well or, most likely, just doesn't care what you have to say.
This lame game is over for me.
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