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"Big 12 not interested in expanding at this time.”

  • touché

    I understand CBS argument about adding that 9 game but Imo it won't matter because they'll give into the SEC soon.

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  • Baylor never said they were going to file a lawsuit against A&M or the SEC if they left the Big 12, people just don't understand simple law in this country.

    Follow with me, Baylor refused to waive their right to file a lawsuit that the SEC wanted them to sign. Basically the SEC was trying to pull a fast one and make all the Big 12 schools sign over their rights to file suit and the school with one of the best trial lawyer law schools with a lawyer as president did the smart thing and told the SEC take A&M if you want them, but if the Big 12 falls apart and we lose money over this deal we will come back at you for damages, once they did it then Iowa St, Kansas, and Kansas St also decided not to sign over their rights.

    So therefore no one ever said we are going to sue you, they just said we reserve the right to sue you if there are financial damages incurred.

    http://twitter.com/Rog_TheSpread

  • After this "Project X" SEC TV deal is announced in a few months, the SEC will be the following:

    1. Highest revenue league per team share while letting schools maintain Tier 3 rights. From what I'm reading, there will not even be a close second.
    2. 6 straight national football championships and 7 of the last 9
    3. If one of the baseball teams win this year, the first conference to ever have three different schools win the NC in football, men's basketball, and baseball in the same school calendar year (it has technically already happened if you count last year's baseball)
    4. It would not cost a penny for a school to leave the league any way you cut it (buyouts, losing media rights revenue, etc.), yet no one has heard a peep in decades of any SEC school wanting to be anywhere else.
    5. The conference that got what it wanted in the early 90's (conference championship that led to BCS format)
    6. The league is getting a four team playoff, which the ACC and SEC introduced four years ago
    7. Positioned to easily add a school from VA and NC if/when realignment occurs again. Va. Tech fans are already clamoring to come, and we could have NC State in a heartbeat. Look at the map. That is a true southeastern conference.

    Yeah, Slive sure is playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.

    Land The Plane

  • From everything I am reading, the SEC's "Project X" will be the top revenue earner and it will not even be a close second. In addition, the SEC schools are expected to keep all of their Tier 3 rights. The SEC is currently in 3 or 4th from their TV deal several years ago, which they smartly placed supplemented with a renegotiation clause. This one is going to be big.

    Land The Plane

  • 1. Thanks for sharing your unfounded Internet rumors with us. The folks at CBS may disagree with you.

    2. Any league that pays $180k for a quarterback should be able to field good teams.

    4. Mizzou would leave for the Big 10 in a heartbeat if they ever had the chance.

    6. Try not to be too disappointed when the conference champions model gets approved.

    7. NC State is not exactly a prize in the realignment game. Have fun splitting up those Tier 1 and 2 revenues even more.

  • You just posted a bunch of "internet rumors". confused

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  • 1. Any more unfounded than those on here saying it will be third or fourth valued? I do not consider Brett McMurphy, Tony Barnhart, Dennis Dodd, or Andy Staples to be the bastion of unfounded internet rumor.
    2. You're better than that. Don't use "unfounded rumor" to make Point 1 and then use an unfounded rumor to answer Point 2.
    4. You are probably right on this one. It makes no sense to me why the B1G did not take them considering what other options they now have going forward. South Carolina was in a similar state when they came into the SEC in the early 90's, and the conference association and commitment have elevated them to a top 15 revenue department and consistent competitor. Missouri is untapped potential, and I believe the SEC is willing to wait for it.
    6. We shall see. Lines are certainly being drawn.
    7. Same argument that I laid out in #4. They are untapped potential. The next wave would certainly include Va. Tech (realized value) and another state school that needs to get out of the shadow of big brother (same as TAMU).

    Land The Plane

  • Actually, the big 10 money is still going to be bigger

  • 1. CBS has thus far refused to increase the SEC's Tier 1 deal which decreases per school revenue. ESPN's payout for Tier 2 will likely go up overall but will it increase on a per school basis? Conference payouts constantly change because of realignment and re-negotiations. My point is that you don't know what any conference will make in the future so it's ludicrous to say that there will not be a close second.

    2. Check this out from the New York Times - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/sports/ncaafootball/auburn-is-cleared-in-investigation-into-cam-newtons-recruitment.html. "The N.C.A.A. acknowledged last fall that Newton’s father, Cecil Newton, shopped his son to Mississippi State for nearly $200,000." It's true I don't have video evidence of Auburn matching the offer but do you really think Newton went to Auburn for free? I didn't say the SEC doesn't know how to cheat well. Read the last paragraph of the article. The SEC knows how to cover its tracks.

    6. Do you not know how many conferences get a vote on the new BCS?

  • nc st untapped potenital? untapped where? no one is going to watch them regardles sof the conference affiliation.

    One thing matters for increased tv revenue: does a tream turn on TV sets? nc st does not. Vt does a little. Vt outdraws us in Md, Va and equal in Pa. We outdraw them in 47 states. So which one is worth more to companies running ads?

    That is why the big 12 contract will go up if we join just because we join. Because we turn on lots and lots ot Tv sets. Hence, Bowlsby talking about the electronic footprint-as in how many Tv sets are turned on when a specific teams plays.

    A&M will never get out of Texas's shawdow BECAUSE IT IS IN TEXAS. A&M will suffer from not playing the Texas, OU and others just like Arkansas has suffered form not plaing the Texas' schhol's conference for the past 20 years.

    Neither Mizzou nore NC ST, will make the SEC a dime. Yet they will get a slice of the pie so your slice is smaller. Brilliant.

    Actually, what is not unfounded is CBS thinks so much of the 2 new additons that it refuses to increase the SEC contract. So much for A&M helping open up the Texas market. Texas is a big state but 10% of the fans in the state still don't account for much.

  • Again FSU brings added value to the B12 but not the SEC because the conference already has UF. In the end the "SEC Network" will be worth more than anything the B12 or B1G can come up with..only adding ND in either conference will change their value. Without ND the B12(even with FSU, WVU and CU) is stll behind the SEC as a conference and media value..simple math: 8 states vs 11 means more carries bc of markets.

    This post was edited by AtlGator19 22 months ago

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  • Nm

    This post was edited by WillyDees 22 months ago

  • You must be in sales, because 80% of this is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Its just SEC fanboy chest bumping.

    Success cannot be attributed directly to a commissioner (unless you count allowing Auburn to pay $200K for a QB, butbthats not here nor there).

    When the TV deal comes out, it will probably be earth shattering, yes. Then Slive will.get even more credit than he does now. That, you are right about.

    But please, take your SEC plugging elsewhere...perhaps to a place where guys like Gene Chizik and John Calipari are celebrated.

  • The CBS money is understandably not changing unless the SEC goes to a 9 game conference schedule. As the Tier 1 rights holder, they are just getting the best game, so anything short of adding Texas, Notre Dame, or USC probably does not move the needle since none of the SEC's additions are currently worth more than the top dogs that will be on every possible week (Bama, LSU, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, USCe). Adding FSU would probably move our Tier 1 needle a bit but not really help with our Tier 2 since they do not add new cable subscribers (already have it with UF). It is the ESPN money (as you said, Tier 2) that is significant from an inventory standpoint. What is most critical is the footprint for an SEC Network of sorts that has a subscription price attached, similar to the B1G Network. The FOX regional networks operate similarly, the SEC needs more households where that Network would be at a level where it would be included in all of our states' regional packages and most of the national packages (I live in Nashville but get the B1G Network by moving up one tier on my cable. Fox Sports Tennessee comes standard for me. The SEC Network would need to have a large footprint to get included in that initial sports packages tier, not buried like an international soccer channel).

    Believe me, SEC fans are not thrilled with every decision they are making right now. It is frustrating that they will not go to a 9 game schedule in order for everyone to play in a 3 year cycle instead of 8 with the 6-1-1 model. It seems cowardly. However, when it comes to media deals, the SEC has been outstanding ever since Slive had a say. They had the largest TV deal until a few years ago and had to somehow sell the MS, AL, AR, and KY markets. The argument that UM, TAMU, NC State, and Va. Tech will not create value is based off of how they operated under Big 12 and ACC arrangements. TAMU, NC State, and Va. Tech may not have had obvious media value because all three are under the same coverage area as other schools of approximate or greater value (UT, UNC, UVA). When split apart and sold to new audiences, they do become a valuable footprint. Yes, ultimately eyeballs watching are critical, but those viewers will come based off exposure to a new, hopefully improved product. The electronic footprint, as Bowlsby likes to say, is what the SEC has also been doing all along. It just so happens that a common sense geographic footprint has gone along with it well. This whole conversation started by someone earlier stating that Slive was playing checkers while others are playing chess. I have said all of this to say that his decisions show that he has been more than competent to get an obviously underpopulated conference from before 2012 into the (or at least a) top position with conferences with much larger populations. Adding Texas, Missouri, Virginia, and North Carolina may seem insignificant to those conferences already there, but it is critical to the SEC to start planting flags in those populations. That's all I'm trying to say.

    This post was edited by blueblindness 22 months ago

    Land The Plane

  • the CBS money is not changing because the new teams do not add enough national viewers to convince advertisers to pay more money to run ads in games. It is that simple.

    What the gator does not understand is that the FSU national audience is as big as Uf's. The big 12 is worth more with FSU and the Sec would be for the same reasons.

    It is only about who turns on tv sets. FSU does that in spades.

  • TV Markets mean nothing

    ACC
    Atlanta
    DC
    Boston
    Pittsburgh
    Tampa
    Miami
    Orlando
    Jacksonville
    Charlotte

    SEC
    Tampa
    Jacksonville
    Orlando
    Miami
    Atlanta

    Under the logic of TV Markets, the ACC contract should be about 5 million a year more than the SEC. Bottom line is, someone is California wants to see Bama v UF over BC @ GT. Same goes for someone in California would rather see Clemson @ FSU instead of Mizzou @ TAMU

    TV Markets only matter because the SEC is trying to start a tier 3 network and they believe the entire state of texas will pick up the SEC Network because of TAMU. We will see if that is worth adding two schools to your conference. Tier 3 network rights dont seem worth that in my mind

    ESPN and CBS are not going to pay more for tv markets that mean nothing. If TV Markets were the end all be all then the SEC would be last because outside of UF, the SEC has 2 real TV Markets. They have such a good contract because they have teams that people want to watch in 330PM and 8PM games nationally

  • a&m left b/c of unequal revenue sharing relating to Tier 3 rights. They still claim the LHN forced them to bolt.

    From what I recall a&m felt the SEC was a better option b/c the schools were, or did, sign over their Tier 3 rights. When ALA makes $8-10 mil for its Tier 3 and a&m makes $2-3mil, look for more aggy bitching about things being unfair. But a&m is your problem now, good luck.

  • This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by ut_longhorns24 22 months ago

  • If people really believee that espn won't give more money after adding fsu then I have some beach front property to sell you in Idaho.

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  • clapYou lose 2 bigger names in Mizzou and Texas A&M, Ha Ha Ha Ha, I would take WVU any day over you too, are you kidding me,even TCU has been more relevant than a&m and Mizzou over the last 10+ years. Stop with the "hater" crap just realize what you have gotten you self into and enjoy your 4 win season for the next 10 years. You are just pissed the Big 12 will become even bigger than the SEC if they were to add FSU and Clemson, not to mention Notre Dame. What a upgrade from a&m and Mizzou. The only big lose for the Big 12 was Nebraska and don't be a fool and think other wise. Please let me know when you finally able to make a bowl game, good luck, you are really going to need it. fingergun

  • What has fox said? They are the ones that really matter for the big 12 . Besides, if Espn doesn't increase the contract price then they won't get the new FSU games.

    they won't increase for especially Mizzou and even A&M because. From a national standpoint they are essentially worthless because they. Both have such small national followings.

    For all this talk, it is in the SEC's interests to have the big 12 viable but not as powerful as the Sec. Adding Fsu and Clemson makes the big 12 as powerful as the Sec because it has more national appeal due to its intersectional nature but primarily because of its marquee names and their ability to turn on tv sets.

    If nd joins then the Sec becomes the truly junior player in the partnership to the point the big 12 doesn't need the Sec partnership for negotiating with the PAC 12 and big 10.
    .
    What the sec needs is to either get Fsu, doubtful because it was scorned once by Fsu or try to get nd. To join the ACC. That will make the ACC a viable 5th conference which will typically vote with the sec.
    as to Sec brilliance, no one who is brilliant takes another conferences's reject when it adds nothing to Your conference. Mizzou would have adsame exact things to the big10 it supposedly does to the sec.

    So who is smarter? Schools in the big 10 or the sec.? That is a funny joke.

    as others have said, the ACC contract is the best indicator of all that turning on tv sets and not tv footprint is all th matters.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by TNOLE27 22 months ago

  • Regarding increase in television contracts I believe you are both right. From what I understand, adding any new team to your league increases the overall value of the contract.

    For example, assume a 10 team league has a $100mil contract. If that league adds an 11th team I believe most contracts would bump that contract up to $110mil. The contract, paying 10 teams 100 mil values a team at $10mil, thus a new team would get the per team bump.

    What the Big12 and SEC are hoping for is an increase in per team pay. Thus, in the example, the league will try to add an 11th team, in an attempt to increase per team payment above $10mil.

    This is Texas' concern. It doesn't want to add FSU or Clemson unless it increases what Texas will make. (there are rumors that the contract states adding FSU will increase per team payout).

  • nono

    The SEC has NEVER needed or will ever need FSU to make money or survive. It's funny that you throw ND in there because that will be the only way the BIG 12 may leap the SEC in vaule. Adding FSU and Clemson makes the Big12 as strong as the SEC? lol in what?

    Slive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ACC+B12 Commish

    Also all the talk about "better" TV deal is pretty pointless because each time one of the Big 4 signs a new deal its going to thrump the others (SEC Network or ND being x-factors).

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Grantparkgator 22 months ago

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  • ND is going to the big 12 for football after their NBC contract runs out, 2015 was the year i remember.

    in the words of another nole who may be on this site still.........we Big 12'n

  • you are right. The Sec does not sec FSu money to survive. however, FSu will make any conference much more money than either A&m or MIZZOU. That was my point.

    So you are making less money by having Mizzou or A&m instead of FSU. That is the point. It is penny wise and pound foolish, assuming we would come to the sec. I have my doubts until nd makes a move. We would not move until we are convinced nd is not coming to the ACC.
    Adding pitt and Syracuse was not random. It covers the biggest area of Nd's fan base.

    Whether it convinces nd to come to the Acc is another matter. If we and Clemson leave i doubt it b/c the Acc would not have enough power even with Nd to get a seat a gown ups table. If we stay, long with ND, you now have a 5 conference scenario.

    Its unfortunate most of the sec fans do not understand viewing audiences. Let's see.

    big 12.

    texas-far more of a national audience than ANY team in the sec.

    FSU-draws equal ratings on an equal l level to uf and Bama and ore than any other SEc team.

    OU-draws nationally almost as much as FSU and more than everyone in the SEC except Bama and UF.

    now do you get the point. Wat about ks st you ask. Their ratings, nationally are about like the barners and usc jr.

    WHY DO YOU THINK THAT CBS SHOWS YOU OR BAMA WHENEVER IT CAN? because the other 10 don't draw better than teams in any other conference.

    so yes, sEc moron, the big 12 will exceed SEc ratings because it would have more marquee properties. The SEc is a regional draw b/c few of its grads go to other parts of the country.

    what the secer's don't understand is the location of the tv does not matter to advertisers.
    The one argument which used to have merit but has not for a couple of years "you need a team int he market to get your network on the cable providers in that market."

    now, that is aloud of bunk. I live in Atlanta yet i have the big 10 network on my cable.

    so here is the SEC issue: Do you have good enough people in your front office to convince providers to add your network if you don't have a team in the market. If not, then it shows you are dwarfed by the big 10.

    If so, then adding two filler teams does nothing more then make uf's cut of the pie smaller.

    Hence, checkers. You have added two teams that do not pay for themselves. smart move.

    This post was edited by TNOLE27 22 months ago