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Better or worse by position

  • All I'm asking for is a comparison to prior year by position group will we be better or worse in 2013?

    OL - better, while we lose Watson we continue to gain experience across a young OL group

    RB - same, although we lose CT which is a huge loss, we gain pender and green. I think LP will be a significant loss as well however the offensive calls can change a little bc we won't field a fb

    Wr - better, Not losing a ton IMO and we are gaining a lot of speed and hopefully KN can pick it up

    Te - better, same group more experience

    Qb - worse, as much as I want to see Winston or Coker prove me wrong I have to believe there will be a drop off. Not impossible for one of them to come in and it all clicks but more often than not that doesn't happen

    DL - worse, this is a result of losing Bjenk, Werner and tank. I still think we will dominate up front but losin that type of talent is impossible to say we don't feel it a little

    LB - ?? Not to sure on this one

    DB - better. Lose X but we have very capable players and we gain a more aggressive play caller. I think we see more ints

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  • I agree for the most part. Defensive ends is a big downgrade but I think DT play will improve. DMac and Timmy are more disruptive than Amp and Ev. Linebackers should improve. Jones and Telvin back. Eligwe will be better than Vince eventually if not right away. Then you have Thomas and Northrup who should both be very good and instant upgrades over Moody

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  • QB-- remains to be seen but likely worse overall. People were unhappy w EJ by the end, but not bc he wasnt a good QB, because his ceiling was much lower than any of us anticipated. Excluding UF, we never straight up lost a game bc of EJ. Thats saying a lot. Could one of the young guys step up, sure. But i anticipate we may lose one or two based on their mistakes.

    OL-- I'd like to say better but that tackle position will be key. Watson did make a huge difference when he was in there. PUSH at worst

    RB--Push, hoping that Pender/Green can fill that big play void left by CT

    WR-- better. i think this unit is drastically underused and substituted. no reason for rodney to run screens, let a shifty WR do that and get in space.

    TE-- better. NOL cannot possibly play as poor as he did last year, he just cant. I think he comes back strong.

    LB--Push. Losing Vince and Moody will hurt. But not as much as we think. I believe Telvin is an upgrade over Vince and all we really need from the new OLB is to be reliable and not make tons of mistakes.

    DB--Better. We lose XR, but we allow for more talent overall to be on the field at the same time w Joyner, Waisome, Darby, Los, Brooks, Hunter (that is scary good)

    DE--Worse. Hard to replace 3 NFL guys on the end but we have young talent. Question is how long will it take for them to step up.

    DT-- Better. More exposure for Timmy J and now McCallister. Goldman/JMac coming in to back up. pretty damn good.

    ST--Worse. Dustin was a stud and we will miss him greatly. Our punter already showed that hes not great last year, but I'd like to think he'll improve on that. KR could not get much worse as we fumbled or mishandled a ton of punts and only really had kicks returned against the scrub teams.

    OVERALL: based on our EXTREMELY favorable schedule I would be shocked and unhappy with anything shy of 10-2

    This post was edited by ScalpEm10 17 months ago

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  • Chris Nee

    I think linebackers will be improved due to changes in the scheme and changes with coaching at the position. I also think the talent (and depth) at the position is ticking upward.

    Chris Nee of 247Sports.com. You can follow me on twitter @CNee247.

  • Great idea for a thread... plus I added ST:

    OL - BETTER - while we lose Watson (RT) we return 4 and continue to gain experience across a group of OL made up of 3 JRs and 1 SR
    RB - SAME - although we lose Chris Thompson (who only played in the 1st 6 games) which is a huge loss, we return 2 JRs Freeman & Wilder and gain RS FR Pender and FR Green. Also lose SR FB Pryor, which is significant because I don't think we have a replacement FB in 2013
    WR - BETTER - only lose 1 and PS had us ranked #3 nationally in 2012. We're loaded at WR.
    TE - BETTER - return all TEs (5* and 4* guys)
    QB - WORSE - as much as I criticized EJ for silly mistakes, the 2013 QB will make more mistakes. At least the QB will have an improved OL and a loaded WR unit.
    DL - WORSE - worse b/c we lost 2 NFL DEs and a 3 DTs. We do return 3 5* guys on the DL, but still I expect the DL to take a step back in 2013.
    LB - BETTER - return 2 of the 3 starting LBs with a couple elite (read: 5* LBs or LBs who were #1 at their position coming out of HS) but young back-ups.
    DB - SAME - lose one NFL CB (Xavier Rhodes) but return 3 5* starters (Darby, Joyner and Karlos) and Hunter at NB.
    ST - SAME - lose DHop, but return Beatty and all PR & KR.

    This post was edited by tlhwg 17 months ago

  • I think DE play will not drop off as much as the consensus here believes. MEJ had valuable reps late last season and Newberry will improve again. Hicks is a very solid DE and Walker should contribute being an EE. Casher imo will put this group back into elite territory as he comes into his own this season.

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  • Agree with most, I do think it will interesting to see how losing Pryor (offensive MVP IMO) will affect both the running and passing game.

  • QB = Even. Whoever starts can hit wide open people against terrible defenses. After that its up for grabs compared to EJ.
    RB = Even
    Wr = better, slightly
    TE = Better
    OL = Better, slightly

    DE = Weaker
    DT = Even
    LB = Better
    CB = Even
    S = Better

    This post was edited by fsufsu 17 months ago

  • OL: worse. Menelik was our best lineman and the drop off at RT could be disastrously large--literally from great to not being able to field a legit college tackle. The marginal improvement at the other OL positions won't make up for it.

    QB: better. No, the QB won't be a better overall player than EJ was, but I think the fresh start of a young player not second-guessing himself will mean we get more playmaking out of the position, even from a more immature or mistake-prone player, and fewer untimely sacks.

    RB: at least better than what we got after CT went down. Way better, actually. I think the coaching will improve. Not sure what was going on with Gran, I'm sure he is a good coach, maybe the wrong fit for the staff, maybe he was already headed elsewhere in his mind, but that position was out of synch with the offense a lot, and won't be going forward.

    WR: I think what you see is what you get with Benjamin, but I bet somebody steps up and makes this position stronger.

    DL: better. Not better players, but more playmaking as the beasts are turned a little more loose.

    LB: way better.

    DB: I bet better for reasons given by others.

    TE: same. Maybe better blocking.

    ST: way worse.

    I think this will be a more exciting, more playmaking team. Maybe a better team overall. I still think it will lose 3-4 games simply because at Clemson and at UF they'll legitimately be facing better teams, possibly top 5 teams, in almost impossible-to-overcome stadiums. Plus I think we are stuck, indeed forever, with the annual 1 or 2 WTF losses to a team we should beat by 35, a phenomenon which has nothing to do with how good we are position-by-position.

  • OL - Even we lose Watson but the rest of the group will be better with experience. So overall this will be a good group IMO.

    RB - Worse - No CT or Pryor. JWJ and Freeman are great but we need Pender to be the home run hitter CT was or we will take a step back on the stretch game. FB I dont see anyone equaling Pryor. Still a great group overall though.

    Wr - Better and Unreal IMO. Talent, Talent, Talent.

    Te - Better - Oleary will breakthrough IMO and the others will be good blockers.

    Qb - Worse IMO. Regardless of who wins the battle they all have strenghts and could lead this to be a great offense but will lack experience and lose a game or two because of it.

    Overall Offense - Same. I think we will throw the ball better but run the ball a bit worse.

    DL - Worse but not by much, our interior will be better IMO with Goldman, Jernigan and MCallister getting all the snaps. DE will trend down a but not as much as some think IMO.

    LB - Better. Smith > Williams. Smith / Williams > Moody.

    DB - Better. Joyner to CB = Rhodes, Darby and Brooks a year better and Williams great addition at S.

    Overall D will be as good IMO, maybe not as many sacks but there will still be a ton of coverage related sacks IMO.

    With out schedule we will be a MINIMUM of 10-2 IMO and could very well be 11-1 or 12-0 playing in the ACCCG.

  • Why cant Aguero be good?

  • QB - worse. were going from a senior to a first time starter. growing pains are expected like always when you have a new starter

    RB - same/worse. should be the same but i want to say slightly worse because we lost Lonnie and he was such a big part of the rungame. we are really gonna miss that guy

    WR - better. i think we will see some guys really blossom this year if we get decent qb play

    TE - better. more experience. hopefully oleary stops fumbling and jimbo trusts him more. better coaching hopefully

    OL - worse/same. hard to say til we see who emerges at RT. losing watson sucked as he was so talented. i have high hopes that Hart can finally become the player we need him to be

    DT - Better. jernigan becomes a full time starter and weve got nasty depth

    DE - worse. we lost 3 impact starters so i cant say it will be the same. theres really good talent so im cautiously optomistic

    LB - better. should be better because of coaching. very talented position

    DBs - same to slightly better. losing rhodes hurts but weve got a lot of talented guys. i dont like moving joyner from safety but i understand why. really want to see Darby get more minutes.

    K - worse. no shock. hopkins was one of the best ever and we will have a rookie. there will be growing pains. hopefully not many.

    P - better. beatty improved down the stretch and with another offseason of work he should start getting his average up.

    overall i think we will take a step back but its to be expected when you lose as much talent as we did to the NFL. we should still have a solid year. 2014 might be really good if we develop our young stars really well this year.

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  • He can, but I think DH was tops in the nation and young kickers usually have some nerves.

  • The only real places I disagree are QB and RB.

    I think we'll be better at QB. I like EJ, great kid, great athlete, and I wish him the best. He brought the running element, too (although not down the stretch this year). But I think that decision-making...the intangibles of being a QB..."it." What Tom Brady has despite not having the best arm. Manning, too, especially at this stage with his diminished arm strength. I think Trickett will have "it" to a greater extent than EJ. Yes he sucked in his limited duty this year. Here's another offseason. This is a kid who doesn't have nearly as much athletic talent as EJ and he's made it thus far on being a great pocket passer. True, HS level of competition was weak, but he put up video game #s his sr year if I remember correctly.

    The celiac disease makes a huge difference, too. You actually cannot gain weight when you have it because since your body doesn't digest gluten, each time you eat gluten, which is in every grain product (yes incl. beer), you violently crap it all back out. At least that's what happened with my friend. Anyway thus he couldn't get bigger.They figured it out and he gained a good amt of weight. 195 for next season I hear is the goal? Adding arm strength, too. With another offseason of studying the playbook...I think this kid is ready to roll.

    RB I think we are worse. CT was really, really good in Trickett's blocking scheme. Cuts on a dime...he was brilliant on cutback runs. Also ran the IZ well for a little guy. However, since he was out for much of the year, he's only part of the reason why I think we're worse at RB. I think the loss of Pryor is HUGE. This kid was the heart of our football team. It's tough to replace that kind of leadership...especially over a number of years. He was also a very, very good player on the field. Always had his blocking schemes right in pass pro (who is going to replace him there...Wilder gets mixed up way more often, Freeman is small). Just a very good blocker overall, size considering and also a good receiver out of the backfield. When he got carries, he did some damage, too. We'll change our scheme, but I think we'll miss having him in the huddle more than people realize.

  • Chris Nee

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  • Mostly agre but the problem is we lose 3 of the top 4 players on D and Our D success was based heavily on high level DE play. Also at DT we had Dmac and jernigan as back ups. They may be better but are Goldman and Jmac ready to be phenomenal backups like we had this year? On O we lose our leader and the best palyer in Watson.

  • The reason the D was based on DE play was because we brought 4 and dropped seven we will switch it up this go around we will have LBs blitzing

  • QB-even. It depends who wins the job. We may have a less talented player that makes better decisions or younger players that have just as much talent, if they can get up to speed mentally.

    RB-even to better. Chris T is elite, but we only had him for half the year. I think this year the juniors will have a great offseason knowing they are battling for top billing. But more importantly, I think they both become more assignment dependable. The youngsters give us a much needed shot of home run speed.

    WR-better. Rodney was a solid player, but a healthy Haulstead should fill his shoes and the young guys will get better.

    TE-better. They are all maturing and Kerr gives us a huge body that will maul you in the run game.

    OL-even. Losing Watson's natural ability hurts and he was most likely going to be more consistent as he learned the game. But the development of Cam will be huge. I think he becomes the best LT in the ACC this year and a top draft pick. And the middle three are as good as it gets. The final piece will determine if this group improves on it's very good performance in '12 and becomes great.

    DE-down. But not as as much as everyone thinks. The talent is there, it just has to grow up quickly. I think Sunseri will get the most out of these kids.

    DT-even to better. We don't have the proven depth, but if Goldman grows up, as well as NLS, Shanks and JMac and Mitchell are healthy, this group could be better because the starters are studs.

    LB-better. Vince was a solid player, but the replacement will be more talented(movement wise) and they will be put in a better position to make plays.

    CB-even to better. Rhodes was a very good player, but I think if Joyner does it fact move, he will be a lot more physical in run support. Add is a solid Waisome, a potential star in Darby, as well as PJ and Ramsey, not to mention some of the other talented depth, this unit is stout.

    S-even to better. Only because I think the scheme will better suit them.

    ST-even. We lose an AA kicker, but I think our return games will be more explosive and less turnovers.

    Coaching-better. I think this staff, even in year one, is just more experienced.

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  • No doubt, but Aguero was the #3 ranked kicker nationally and then redshirted. Chances are he steps out there and strokes some FGs for us. I agree with you though. I have no desire to downgrade DHop to try and make next year feel better.

  • ↑↑↑↑↑ THIS. DHop was very good & reliable, but he couldn't make a walk-off FG (i.e., a FG to end a game that we were losing--not a game that was tied, a game we were losing). He didn't have ice in his veins.

    Aguayo is as good as the come out of HS.

  • QB: - you don't lose a 5th year senior replace them with an inexperienced QB and get better.

    RB: = or < with Pender healthy. > or - without Pender.

    WR: + Haulstead healthy, Bracy, Christian Green emerges again, Scooter healthy, Dent, plus a better R. Greene

    OL: + Another year of experience and training with this group. Cam's 2nd year will be even better. If Hart or Stork steps up then this group will be tough.

    DL: + at DT and - at DE. Goldman, Jernigan, NLS, McAllister, Mitchell, Shanks. Wow. You lose 3 NFL draft picks at a position you don't get better.

    LB: ++ add #6 plus Eligwe, and Terrance Smith. I think this group will flourish every game.

    DB: - with Joyner at Safety. + with Joyner at CB & Karlos at S.

    Coaching Staff: + better and more experienced staff.

  • I agree but you actually cant really make that comment. I mean seriously, EJ was freakin terrible against good teams this past year except the second half against just a terrible Clemson defense.

  • This team was terrible against really good teams.. I get the accuracy issues, but this idea that the kid was not smart enough to read defenses would lead the average fan to think this dude had a .500 winning percentage with a 50/50 td/int ratio.. I hate that he didn't run more just as the next guy but c'mon...

  • I think QB is a TBA, because while EJ has some qualities you definitely like, he also has some that are so bad it was terrible. On paper, he was great, but for people who watched all the games, they could tell you that other than Clemson, he rarely made plays when we needed it most. NC State, Florida, GT, and long stretches of VT he was making non-stop big mistakes at the worst moments. There is sometihng to be said about that.

    Our ST will also be better because last year it sucked. Punting was mediocre at best and Punt Returns was a disaster. Kicking game may dip a little but everything else should be better.

    As far as the rest of the positions, we will not be as good on the DL because of who we lost. We should be better everywhere else. Tons of depth and lots of returning players.

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