Unconquered

You are flat out wrong. The ACC as a football conference, is barely hanging on with FSU. If FSU leaves, the ACC doesn't have a leg to stand on. There is not one football school in the ACC (Clemson, Miami, or Virginia Tech) that would feel comfortable in the ACC if FSU were to leave. Which is exactly why if FSU leaves, the BigXII will have their choice at whatever ACC school they want, because at that point the ACC would be a sinking ship and Clemson, Miami, and VT all know it. Unless those schools are satisfied with being a pure basketball league, they would leave instantly.

I know you think you know a lot, but do I dare ask for you to actually convince me how the ACC is not completely and utterly doomed if we leave. Where does their money come from? Who are the football programs that are worthy enough to keep the ACC as an AQ conference? Who replaces us? What reason on gods Earth would Clemson, UM, or VT have for staying?

Not to call you out, but you sound like an FSU fan that lives in VA or NC that deep down knows going to the BigXII is the right move, but don't want all the games we play in your area to just vanish.

I wouldn't say the deal drops 12M, but it would drop a lot. Between Clemson and FSU, you are looking at losing a good 4-7M dollars per team/yr. That would mean making anywhere from 10-13M/season. That is terrible.

South Carolina does not have a huge market, but they are a college football watching state. FSU encompasses the markets in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm, Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, and everything in between. Not to mention FSU is a National Brand, that everyone watches, as evidenced by our extremely high TV ratings in bowl games.

The ACC encompasses a lot of large television markets, but they are just not big college football watching areas. Face it, Boston College is in a huge market, but more people in Boston watch Notre Dame or Michigan than they do BC. North Carolina has several large markets, but we have 4 different NC schools in the conference, essentially hardly making it worth it. GT gives us Atlanta, but like BC, more people in Atlanta watch UGA, Bama, and Auburn than they do GT. The ACC has large markets, but the markets we take advantage of the most are all of the Florida markets and Virginia Beach area market. Boston, Baltimore, D.C., Atlanta, we are not getting as much out of these markets as we could.

Another comment on our poor performance over the past 10 years...

We may have stunk the past 10 years, but the fact that we have stunk and no ACC team could step up and make this conference look good is all the more reason we should leave it. Just say it out loud, "if FSU isn't in the NC picture, the ACC is complete garbage." Is that really fair to us? We have to be perfect for this conference to be respected? What is the point in us being in this conference then?

You look at the SEC, when Bama was down, LSU was great. When UGA and UT are down, UF was great. When UT, UGA, and UF are all average, South Carolina steps up.

You look at the BigXII. Texas has been crap for 2 years. Oklahoma State won 11 games. Kansas State won 10. OU has always been good 9-11 wins. When KSU was terrible, Texas Tech won 11 games. Kansas went to an Orange Bowl.

If we were to join the BigXII and go 8-4, at least our conference would still be okay to stay afloat.

In the ACC, we have heard everyone in the media say "ACC is down because of FSU and Miami."

In the other conferences, when Texas is down, there is someone else to make the conference look good. When UF is down, or UGA is down, or Bama is down, there is someone to make the SEC look good.

The other conference have decent programs. In the ACC, we have a bunch of crappy teams that when the conference is down, they point at FSU and say, "hey, what are you guys doing?" Other than VT there has not been 1 schools that stepped up and picked up the slack. I think the ACC may be the only one of the 5 major conferences you can say that about.

Crozea thanks for the opposing viewpoint, and you are exactly right, in that no other ACC school stepped up in football.

I said from the beginning FSU goes to the B12, they are a guppy in the giant goldfish (UT) fishtank.

Since FSU is as established as everyone here seems to agree, in the ACC (though the conference will hardly be doomed if we leave), I think we should consider two options:

-FSU gathers together some of the other football oriented schools, and together in a united front, approach the ACC about moving it in the proper direction in football. if this were successful it suddenly gives FSU a seat at the head of the table, what this would entail i will leave to more knowledgeable people,. but IMO why not exercise the option of just making where you are stronger?

Now if that does not work, then:

FSU and its "partners" break off and form a new conference and poach from both the ACC, BE and even other viable non-bcs conf schools, negotiate its own Television deal, and hence, again FSU is in the power broker seat.

The idea here is to make FSU a player for real, not in some fond memory of football exploits from the 90's, right? Power brokers get 10-12mill for their 3rd tier games, and get to call the shots.

Maybe its just me, but if you are going to go for it, then go for it.

If Gene Corrigan were still ACC comissioner, this whole debate would not be happening.

Ames is a 40 mile drive from Des Moines, the capitol and largest city in Iowa...

I'd say.

Pretty amazing considering our decade of mediocrity, isn't it?

What excuse do you have for this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204527804576043870683872488.html

You can't credit our opponent for all of those bowl games, can you?

I think I got a seizure from that.

He freely admits our game with OU bumped up the total viewership by 9million, and look i am not debating our television ratings are in the top tier of the ACC, what I would of liked to see, is a comparision with the top tier of the other conferences, and total viewers.

Ok we are one of the most valuable in the ACC, but where do our numbers place us among the other conferences, we want to be considered a nationally recognized program, so we need to see that.

Again my argument is not that we should leave television dollars on the table, its that i don't think it is prudent to just uproot and run off somewhere else, rather than try to help fix where we are at, which in the long run will give us far more collateral.

Further shows that we should join the conference that Oklahoma is in.

Attractive enough to draw the second highest bowl ratings in our decade of incompetency? Those ratings are from 1998 until now. We have played in some pretty shitty bowls with some pretty shitty teams, yet we have the 2nd highest ratings of anyone.

Imagine what our ratings and merchandise sales would look like if we were contending for titles.....

Ok...yay go FSU..go B12..Yay..

There I will just fall in line with the sheeples...better?